From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Ricardo Wurmus Subject: Re: common software Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2018 20:14:54 +0100 Message-ID: <87r2q8sci9.fsf@elephly.net> References: <20180128122259.77acba52@jasniac.instanton> <871si9twey.fsf@elephly.net> <87o9lck393.fsf@gnu.org> <86372o7bkv.fsf@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Return-path: Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:46549) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1egEtd-0006b5-BK for help-guix@gnu.org; Mon, 29 Jan 2018 14:15:18 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1egEtb-0000Q7-Ra for help-guix@gnu.org; Mon, 29 Jan 2018 14:15:12 -0500 In-reply-to: <86372o7bkv.fsf@gmail.com> List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-guix-bounces+gcggh-help-guix=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sender: "Help-Guix" To: myglc2@gmail.com Cc: help-guix@gnu.org, Marco van Hulten Hi George, > But Ludo=E2=80=99 what is convenient for you is not convenient for the Gu= ix > noob: They are most likely already using a mainstream GNU/Linux distro > on a notebook or desktop. When they try any other distro they expect it > to provide similar stuff to what their distro provided out of the box. > By not doing this we a) fail to meet expectations and b) force them into > the Guix config-o-rama, which, if we are honest, is not friendly: it's > in scheme, far from obvious, and produces errors that helpful only to > someone who already understands Guix. Re errors: recently this has greatly been improved. I=E2=80=99m now told t= hat I probably forgot to include a certain module, and how I can fix it. Granted, simple syntax errors aren=E2=80=99t reported nicely, but that=E2= =80=99s a problem in Guile (and there=E2=80=99s a bug report for it). But that=E2=80=99s beside the point: users who install software they need i= nto their user profile do not do this in the operating system configuration! So they don=E2=80=99t have to touch it at all to get things like =E2=80=9Cf= ile=E2=80=9D or =E2=80=9Cwget=E2=80=9D. I also think you=E2=80=99re greatly exaggerating the =E2=80=9Cunfriendlines= s=E2=80=9D of Guix configuration. > This is why we should change the templates so that GuixSD comes OOTB > with the same stuff as any mainstream distro. IOW, we should quickly get > the noob running GuixSD and only then show them how cool guix-profile > is. Guix is all about user freedom. Providing a bigger set of defaults isn=E2=80=99t really helping, because then we=E2=80=99re then telling other= people to remove the packages from their configs if they don=E2=80=99t like them. I = much prefer a constructive approach where you *add* what you want rather than remove what you find was installed without your knowledge. We already have configuration templates for different systems: bare-bones, lightweight-desktop, and desktop. We could add more: audio-workstation (for common recording tools, preconfigured JACK, and some extra kernel settings), graphics-workstation (blender, gimp, imagemagick, etc), =E2=80=A6 But I=E2=80=99d leave that up to whoever feels= like maintaining and testing these templates. -- Ricardo GPG: BCA6 89B6 3655 3801 C3C6 2150 197A 5888 235F ACAC https://elephly.net