From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp12.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms5.migadu.com with LMTPS id EPS3Apl5CGMr/AAAbAwnHQ (envelope-from ) for ; Fri, 26 Aug 2022 09:43:21 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp12.migadu.com with LMTPS id 4NioApl5CGNpMwEAauVa8A (envelope-from ) for ; Fri, 26 Aug 2022 09:43:21 +0200 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A4EA2296E9 for ; Fri, 26 Aug 2022 09:43:20 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1]:47584 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oRTzq-000292-40 for larch@yhetil.org; Fri, 26 Aug 2022 03:43:18 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:40714) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oRTzY-00028r-KK for help-guix@gnu.org; Fri, 26 Aug 2022 03:43:00 -0400 Received: from sender4-of-o51.zoho.com ([136.143.188.51]:21112) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oRTzV-0002lK-Ih; Fri, 26 Aug 2022 03:42:59 -0400 ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1661499773; cv=none; d=zohomail.com; s=zohoarc; b=m00hS9qEcXXx9OEWnOJpon/E4J/Tm8PgYlBqa83XWyrWJTBGF2tgY3QXaxYVj2IlTTQzVTDiNeuGtWeXjXv5UF2b65/c/vUv3ZPTTRru4YZb5vaCiCiS73muGn8Z2tNV4kVesE0wRxoYr2+gtVwkJiMn4eZXeWd9j4cYdhEIGJw= ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=zohomail.com; s=zohoarc; t=1661499773; h=Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Cc:Date:From:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Message-ID:References:Subject:To; bh=2aFbjMXve6RBwFcM10DuwqEXh9pP/leCyEnQEJnVzsI=; b=dHKiEwDvwzBDobOwNRVyAOPre91hJWSdJYknhUuOOzjg5HH3kwyvwQQkDuYRi3mreSzEnvnnp6vWhSD30WLnG4ctBMQ9L8rrGPvjZGilRC2Bb9tp85K1/9VP83tIhJ6mWDDOIH8/sE7XNWKiwlbYmI1KE/XuBYvYP8AGixpj4rM= ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.zohomail.com; dkim=pass header.i=elephly.net; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=rekado@elephly.net; dmarc=pass header.from= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1661499773; s=zoho; d=elephly.net; i=rekado@elephly.net; h=References:From:From:To:To:Cc:Cc:Subject:Subject:Date:Date:In-reply-to:Message-ID:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-Id:Reply-To; bh=2aFbjMXve6RBwFcM10DuwqEXh9pP/leCyEnQEJnVzsI=; b=bXBvyufsdmMwFnDOqw5W7zlGS2CAINrGl00b0/L9PdABmo2ctAR4XrYi24koOtxC sItw/cTRtRRayaE8S3GPAVdDCRlxeFBeEDMRpqrgVzlacMk76TncGWCqKktL4R3IOQS otl5xU0jCtXEBe8ACg99m44rZHGmFopEqjChB+/U= Received: from localhost (i5E862D8D.versanet.de [94.134.45.141]) by mx.zohomail.com with SMTPS id 166149977099313.438919397726181; Fri, 26 Aug 2022 00:42:50 -0700 (PDT) References: <8735dzqhge.fsf@beadling.co.uk> <47774701-8E8E-4185-9DB9-7E5D7F91ACD2@yasuaki.com> User-agent: mu4e 1.8.7; emacs 28.1 From: Ricardo Wurmus To: Yasuaki Kudo Cc: Phil , Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= , Benjamin Slade , Olivier Dion , help-guix@gnu.org Subject: Re: Enterprise Guix Hosting? Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2022 09:24:19 +0200 In-reply-to: <47774701-8E8E-4185-9DB9-7E5D7F91ACD2@yasuaki.com> X-URL: https://elephly.net X-PGP-Key: https://elephly.net/rekado.pubkey X-PGP-Fingerprint: BCA6 89B6 3655 3801 C3C6 2150 197A 5888 235F ACAC Message-ID: <87lerbxxfs.fsf@elephly.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-ZohoMailClient: External Received-SPF: pass client-ip=136.143.188.51; envelope-from=rekado@elephly.net; helo=sender4-of-o51.zoho.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: help-guix@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-guix-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Help-Guix" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-To: larch@yhetil.org X-Migadu-Country: US ARC-Message-Signature: i=2; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1661499800; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=2aFbjMXve6RBwFcM10DuwqEXh9pP/leCyEnQEJnVzsI=; b=R3/VbHaqkpb1oVLt5qZnh6Y1nfZZIEfmw63qVzSQL0ZEejMaYJvLgcA1MnyaLnqUUrlXWO T9EKRrzkSiRL821TniZL//wi2R1YPqRHEqkxe/tlImupB8uvr7jB+aZwy/moRfgmGfRcPV Bmpsp8qLma2IjHaxLbcSu0hbAnwp+zjCPJiTRDt9FPVus4ghK6AOsVMIDnbrhgthbGwTZA ZhidpcFd/ZeekPeach71cfFGwiD1eP8x20uvckD6N5zepR7jlMNQxDn3lh8pV4gCXaq7yV iDiuDRq20GoChAf8uxdvvXH4sZgPrj5eoNVh/ywZLE+Or5j+LqgbzqPfNzR+ww== ARC-Seal: i=2; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1661499800; a=rsa-sha256; cv=pass; b=Rm4jAxENgrHmaX38a1Ssv7G+Bp65DUAZRL+qXAX2Oile08GA8RYF9Mn9fC3LYN0X+qXxql CsNfUTzT9uCxUQCiKzaA8LgWqnmeW/ZnmpbprFQNuuWQxK7b6gwlZO7xwNt4Zgu1IWITvw vGA3Vz8TxS3fAFVbClIxlpjCt8e0HxUCaJLdGTu6qi4dqHaSLrb4uGccMjU5jcElmduqt0 /EUCNY52e8W0VZWWOiBqkAKJPe7//dsV8qvmJIfRsIPZ7hkVcdbhrZRSdNp2vdB4Mw/f6y GTOFbSWqPuMQ+z36Q3zN7keka/YnznKdJdnHrCQ/95vADRXwseTreW9few7/cA== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=2; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=elephly.net header.s=zoho header.b=bXBvyufs; arc=pass ("zohomail.com:s=zohoarc:i=1"); dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "help-guix-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="help-guix-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -8.61 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=elephly.net header.s=zoho header.b=bXBvyufs; arc=pass ("zohomail.com:s=zohoarc:i=1"); dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "help-guix-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="help-guix-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Queue-Id: A4EA2296E9 X-Spam-Score: -8.61 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: 0gOlxdBwSJrA Hi Yasu > Our idea is at the coop is that we want to develop software > development acceleration tools, and a major part would be > container-less software provisioning so that composition would not > mean more and more layers of technical debt... Don=E2=80=99t discount containers too soon. Guix has =E2=80=9Cguix system = container=E2=80=9D, which spins up lightweight Guix System containers that share /gnu/store. You only need to set up a bridge interface on the host and create a network device pair and move one end into the container=E2=80=99s net names= pace. You can do containers and compose them without layers upon layers of file system blobs. The reasons why this is not commonly done on existing commercial platforms: - container images are often provided from different origins, so there is no trust and thus no way to have them share the same files or common packages - without reproducible builds trust cannot be established - container images are erroneously considered a requirement for isolation, but it is not actually required to use them even in the presence of an unshared mount namespace. Using a shared /gnu/store as a big cache for all containers can be a real asset. We can learn lessons from the HPC experience here. --=20 Ricardo