From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: ludo@gnu.org (Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?=) Subject: Re: string-append plus package Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2017 00:05:48 +0100 Message-ID: <87inpx6p0z.fsf@gnu.org> References: <20161208195647.GA23449@jasmine> <87h9608d3l.fsf@gnu.org> <42bb5a6c-6a7c-c348-d9d0-da83805cdffe@crazy-compilers.com> <87oa0859lo.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Return-path: Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:59731) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cOBfw-0008O0-WF for help-guix@gnu.org; Mon, 02 Jan 2017 18:05:58 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cOBfs-0004Wp-2B for help-guix@gnu.org; Mon, 02 Jan 2017 18:05:56 -0500 In-Reply-To: (Hartmut Goebel's message of "Sun, 1 Jan 2017 16:34:33 +0100") List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-guix-bounces+gcggh-help-guix=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sender: "Help-Guix" To: Hartmut Goebel Cc: help-guix@gnu.org Hi! Hartmut Goebel skribis: > To make GuixSD successful =E2=80=93 and not just another marginal distrib= ution =E2=80=93 > guix must support users and administrator to do there job. Otherwise > they will stay with other distributions. Administrators are typically > short in time and they are not programmes. If they are programming, they > are used to bash, perl, python and other imperative languages. Maybe > they have some experiences with tools like puppet or ansible, which > introduce some declarative paradigm. [...] > If now guix is inconsistent to use (see below), or uses some "magic", or > is complicated to learn, administrators will abstain from GuixSD. > > So the road to success is based on on simplicity, consistency and no magi= c. Agreed! > ATM, system declarations are *not* consistent: While in a package > description (gnu/packages/*.scm) and in service definitions > (gnu/service/*.scm) one can use "(string-append PACKAGE =E2=80=A6)", this= does Not sure what you mean: (string-append PACKAGE STRING) never works if PACKAGE is a package object. > *not* work in system declarations (gnu/system/examples/*.tmpl). From an > administrators point of view, there is no reason for this different > behaviour. it's plain confusing. > > Adding on this: I took two weeks (not counting the delay caused on my > side) to get a working answer for the simple question in this thread. > Imagine some admin trying ot GuixSD and being delayed that long. He/she > will just stop evaluating GuixSD. > > If GuixSD should become successful, you need to change this. Agreed, except on one point: =E2=80=9Cwe=E2=80=9D instead of =E2=80=9Cyou= =E2=80=9D. It=E2=80=99s a collaborative effort and no single person can =E2=80=9Cget it right=E2=80= =9D and fix every single issue. User experience feedback like this is crucial if we are to improve things. As a =E2=80=9Cfisherman=E2=80=9D like you wrote, there are many issues that= I don=E2=80=99t even notice. Reporting how the tool fails to meet your expectations like you did is the first step towards improving it. It may be obvious to you that something is broken here, but it was not obvious to me until you described your expectations. So, thanks for helping out! Ludo=E2=80=99.