From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp2 ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms11 with LMTPS id bTztNkT+Gl9YNQAA0tVLHw (envelope-from ) for ; Fri, 24 Jul 2020 15:29:08 +0000 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp2 with LMTPS id gC05MkT+Gl/SUAAAB5/wlQ (envelope-from ) for ; Fri, 24 Jul 2020 15:29:08 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 556B6940214 for ; Fri, 24 Jul 2020 15:29:08 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost ([::1]:57374 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jyzdC-0008It-9m for larch@yhetil.org; Fri, 24 Jul 2020 11:29:06 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:37758) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jyzd5-0008Ih-BR for help-guix@gnu.org; Fri, 24 Jul 2020 11:28:59 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:54622) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jyzd4-0006BY-H5; Fri, 24 Jul 2020 11:28:58 -0400 Received: from [2001:660:6102:320:e120:2c8f:8909:cdfe] (port=50488 helo=ribbon) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1jyzd3-00010V-EZ; Fri, 24 Jul 2020 11:28:58 -0400 From: =?utf-8?Q?Ludovic_Court=C3=A8s?= To: Carlo Zancanaro Subject: Re: Knowing which services to restart References: <20200708045625.GA16260@inspiron-3147> <87eepm1j7w.fsf@ambrevar.xyz> <87blkq9sdl.fsf@zancanaro.id.au> X-URL: http://www.fdn.fr/~lcourtes/ X-Revolutionary-Date: 7 Thermidor an 228 de la =?utf-8?Q?R=C3=A9volution?= X-PGP-Key-ID: 0x090B11993D9AEBB5 X-PGP-Key: http://www.fdn.fr/~lcourtes/ludovic.asc X-PGP-Fingerprint: 3CE4 6455 8A84 FDC6 9DB4 0CFB 090B 1199 3D9A EBB5 X-OS: x86_64-pc-linux-gnu Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2020 17:28:55 +0200 In-Reply-To: <87blkq9sdl.fsf@zancanaro.id.au> (Carlo Zancanaro's message of "Wed, 08 Jul 2020 21:08:06 +1000") Message-ID: <87h7tx53uw.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.3 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-BeenThere: help-guix@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: help-guix@gnu.org Errors-To: help-guix-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Help-Guix" X-Scanner: scn0 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of help-guix-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=help-guix-bounces@gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -1.01 X-TUID: kWrhtEU9uhdW Hi, Carlo Zancanaro skribis: > On Wed, Jul 08 2020, Pierre Neidhardt wrote: >> Couldn't Guix be smarter about this? Or at least provide a less puzzlin= g message. > > This was brought up when we originally implemented upgrading of services = on a live system. The discussion about this starts in an email from Ludovic= [1], and proceeds from there (although you'll have to skip over some other = unrelated conversations). > > There are definitely ways that things can be improved. I made an attempt = at doing this at the end of 2018[2], but that didn't result in anything bei= ng merged into Guix. I don't think we've yet settled on an approach for how= to resolve this (and the related issue of automatically upgrading services= ). > > Carlo > > [1]: https://issues.guix.info/22039#11 > [2]: https://issues.guix.info/33508 The general issue here is that we cannot safely stop+start a service without notice, unless the user explicitly said this is OK. Consequently, in practice, only services that the user explicitly =E2=80=98= herd restart=E2=80=99s are up-to-date. It=E2=80=99s OK when you know you what s= ervice you want to update here and now, but it=E2=80=99s suboptimal otherwise. I figured there=E2=80=99s one way to mostly sidestep the issue: when we have =E2=80=9Csocket activation=E2=80=9D in the Shepherd, then unused services w= ill be =E2=80=9Cstopped=E2=80=9D at reconfigure time and thus safe to upgrade. Th= us, in practice, more services will be upgraded by default. It=E2=80=99d still be up to the user to restart currently running services = when they deem appropriate. Thanks, Ludo=E2=80=99.