From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp1 ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms0.migadu.com with LMTPS id UAtyAOivN2FrYQAAgWs5BA (envelope-from ) for ; Tue, 07 Sep 2021 20:31:04 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp1 with LMTPS id 6DK3N+evN2EJZAAAbx9fmQ (envelope-from ) for ; Tue, 07 Sep 2021 18:31:03 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3F3A110A68 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 2021 20:31:03 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1]:44528 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mNfs5-0005ZC-0r for larch@yhetil.org; Tue, 07 Sep 2021 14:31:01 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:56442) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mNfrg-0005XV-W7 for help-guix@gnu.org; Tue, 07 Sep 2021 14:30:37 -0400 Received: from dustycloud.org ([50.116.34.160]:58554) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mNfrd-0000tY-LG for help-guix@gnu.org; Tue, 07 Sep 2021 14:30:36 -0400 Received: from twig (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dustycloud.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CDAA02661B; Tue, 7 Sep 2021 14:30:31 -0400 (EDT) References: <87ftcaqxer.fsf@dustycloud.org> <874kbogf1h.fsf@dustycloud.org> <877dgjd441.fsf@d2.com> <87mtordcqq.fsf@dustycloud.org> <20210907063652.697bd4e3@primarylaptop.localdomain> User-agent: mu4e 1.6.2; emacs 27.2 From: Christine Lemmer-Webber To: Denis 'GNUtoo' Carikli Subject: Re: Guix on the MNT Reform Date: Tue, 07 Sep 2021 14:18:01 -0400 In-reply-to: <20210907063652.697bd4e3@primarylaptop.localdomain> Message-ID: <87h7ewb5mg.fsf@dustycloud.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Received-SPF: pass client-ip=50.116.34.160; envelope-from=cwebber@dustycloud.org; helo=dustycloud.org X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: help-guix@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: help-guix@gnu.org Errors-To: help-guix-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Help-Guix" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1631039463; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post; bh=+t8otAYo1M7g8ct6PSjSjpvoHq9jg3o4/qXsv5iiklo=; b=tYX0iXL4M+VFXVMrDKAkyEAn/mIGpW80Hh4PQ0cL/dFV26hMZ9gjctyFeokVB70x+VLCED KSG7UtpOUvqkR/1q7QTtQO2sKho9Iz/LDXbPzBi5xBuBc4idaQ3z++tbhTi8/6A4+j8u1Y OvfYXsILzPs79WLn2XkqXyi3fyZabODrudvMDDmEMysIrUIuNqQmyEF1UIcnFWb1jWE9yo sRYM+fh+9nTlv8BibpZZJLd8LhUzgxBBXSXtgP6qIfEV52o1chPY2cAFjkuvSzFrx4BlrQ uZtONXPrS0tnu87dXlf5Hqee5Zpha4EqBguwBYBuPZMEOwXVmRC3FzfdqlHg6A== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1631039463; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=hm1p6uoqxOoeCoWs7KieT3qnFBrrAtKXb3hYz9HiC5l5UFXdyH+vxYJE53hxukTtBDurMh did4yYonw1YeG73fIx32HrUoOVleCrbjUTP9XNPbAcv93KeSVRjpfW31qawUULRvpKwjWw FgZmIfSnyTg/I3jooTkFOfmfDfjTTefExwi/XK1Tmg3BjEifuxbyv/LZERvmq2K6Q7+lbB 9BVy5TAVVfBuCC64Q8ulmqDrqP2PG/GGerom3yDYyke1lhhJy5bXyrc1E0sZawh/wcRw0W dIRnGbDa5L6/gfpndhOszwrBSCmprxI4L0wtx+8ZR8G7f6bV07nyMnEX0sLyXA== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of help-guix-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=help-guix-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -0.91 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of help-guix-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=help-guix-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 3F3A110A68 X-Spam-Score: -0.91 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: BXG45bAssfJu Denis 'GNUtoo' Carikli writes: > [[PGP Signed Part:Undecided]] > On Sat, 04 Sep 2021 21:31:08 -0400 > Christine Lemmer-Webber wrote: > >> So we probably want to make a u-boot-mnt-reform in >> gnu/packages/bootloaders.scm > The issue is that the I.MX8 requires a nonfree firmware for the DDR4 > controller. Oh really? And it's not on hardware, needs to be compiled into either u-boot or the kernel I guess? I had thought looking at the manual of the MNT Reform that only the HDMI port required a blob. This will be disappoiting if we can't get the Reform into Guix proper soon. There are of course channels, and maybe the work here might have to move to one of those locations rather than getting committed to the main guix repo, but I hope not. Hm, seems confirmed from the #mnt-reform channel on libera: hm is this true? https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/help-guix/2021-09/msg00035.html do you need a piece of nonfree firmware to get the reform to boot? The bootloader contains a training firmware that is supplied to the DDR4 controller I see So yes, there's a blob that is given to the DDR4 controller so yes, until that is replaced 'replaced'? looks like we won't be able to get the reform in guix proper then since it has a pretty strict libre policy but, it could go in a channel I guess > If you grep for firmware-imx in the u-boot source code you will find > mentions of it in the READMEs documentation for many I.MX8 boards. That's too bad. > So that firmware probably need to be reimplemented as free software > somehow. Or: the trick is to flash the non-free bootloader into the SoM's eMMC then you don't have to see the non-free software ;) Of course, though I think a purely libre policy is quite good, the criticism remains correct that it's a bit absurd that we tend to relax once we move it "out of sight, out of mind". But one can only make so much progress at once. Maybe some day we'll have hardware that's truly free from top to bottom. I do think the Reform helps advance towards that goal: at least it makes things very incrementally improvable in ways that other laptop designs do not. So I would like to get Guix working with it... even if we have to outsource our process to a separate channel until a fully free solution exists. > Alternatively there are some new system on module (SOM) boards that are > also compatible with the MNT Reform[1] that might at least boot with > free software. > > I've also started documenting the MNT reform on a Liberplanet wiki > page[2] but it's really a draft at this point. Maybe of note for that page: 'If it's connected through PCI, it could be a security issue as IOMMUs tend to be too easy to bypass in practice as they are often not well configured by various software components like u-boot, Linux and so on.' The i.MX8M has *no* IOMMU > References: > ----------- > [1]https://community.mnt.re/t/ideas-for-processors-for-mnt-reform/237 > [2]https://libreplanet.org/wiki/Group:Hardware/research/laptop/Mnt_Reform > > Denis. Thank you for your hard work on this and many other important things to improve our computing freedom situations, Denis! > [[End of PGP Signed Part]]