IceWeasel-UXP and IceDove-UXP

IceWeasel-UXP and IceDove-UXP

[guixuser]

hi

I recently migrated from debian to guixsd. I was shocked to see there was neither iceweasel nor icedove available. This is frustrating as they are commonly used programs on gnu/linux systems.

After a through research, I understood that there are some freedom issues. The available patches at parabola seems complicated. Then I came across the following in the SearX search:

Iceweasel-UXP: https://wiki.hyperbola.info/doku.php?id=en:project:iceweasel-uxp
Icedove-UXP: https://wiki.hyperbola.info/doku.php?id=en:project:icedove-uxp

They both are FSDG compliant and has good security+privacy focus. Can someone please package these as soon as possible (I would have done it if I could). Will be very useful for other migrators to guix as well.

Look, I understand that you guix people are working hard. To be honest, you people have done a great job. The uniqueness of guix is intriguing. At the same time, you people have to think about new users as well and understand their perspective. I have read some mails in the mail lists. Asking the new users to package what they want and suggesting alternative applications; is like passively showing middle finger to them. They (including me) have not only have to adopt to new environment; also have to work with unfamiliar applications? Come on, that's way too much. So please, please consider at least including these two apps in guix.

thanks

New Guix User. IceWeasel-UXP

Re: IceWeasel-UXP and IceDove-UXP

[Ricardo Wurmus]

Hi guixuser,

> I recently migrated from debian to guixsd. I was shocked to see there
> was neither iceweasel nor icedove available. This is frustrating as
> they are commonly used programs on gnu/linux systems.

We offer Icecat.

--
Ricardo

Re: IceWeasel-UXP and IceDove-UXP

[guixuser]

> We offer Icecat.

OMG! Please read the bottom portion of my previous email.

thanks.

Re: IceWeasel-UXP and IceDove-UXP

[Ricardo Wurmus]

guixuser <guixuser@protonmail.com> writes:

>> We offer Icecat.
>
> OMG! Please read the bottom portion of my previous email.

I did and offered an available alternative.

Please note that your writing style comes across as needlessly
aggressive and demanding.  You may find that people are more willing to
help you if you change that.

--
Ricardo

Re: IceWeasel-UXP and IceDove-UXP

[guixuser]

> I did and offered an available alternative.

... ?

> Please note that your writing style comes across as needlessly
> aggressive and demanding. You may find that people are more willing to
> help you if you change that.

My intention was not to be aggressive. I sorry if it looked that way. Just a newbie asking for help.

Re: IceWeasel-UXP and IceDove-UXP

[Jesse Gibbons]

On Fri, 19 Jul 2019 23:50:20 +0200
Ricardo Wurmus <rekado@elephly.net> wrote:

> guixuser <guixuser@protonmail.com> writes:
> 
> >> We offer Icecat.  
> >
> > OMG! Please read the bottom portion of my previous email.  
> 
> I did and offered an available alternative.
> 
> Please note that your writing style comes across as needlessly
> aggressive and demanding.  You may find that people are more willing
> to help you if you change that.
> 
> --
> Ricardo
> 
> 

To be fair,
- iceweasel-uxp has a different engine than icecat.
- There is no good email client like thunderbird. I'm stuck with
  claws-mail, and I reallly don't like it. icedove-uxp would be a good
  addition.
- icedove-uxp and iceweasel-uxp are likely to have similar dependencies
  given they are a part of the hyperbola project. It will probably be
  simple to write a package for iceweasel-uxp and iceape-uxp after
  icedove-uxp is written.

I think I can port icedove-uxp, and guixuser can use my code as a
template for iceweasel. It will help guixuser get comfortable with
porting and fixing packages, which would be important if guixuser is to
remain a guix user.

Guixuser, would you mind if I CC you when I submit the patch?

-Jesse

Re: IceWeasel-UXP and IceDove-UXP

[guixuser]

> To be fair,
>
> -   iceweasel-uxp has a different engine than icecat.
> -   There is no good email client like thunderbird. I'm stuck with
>     claws-mail, and I reallly don't like it. icedove-uxp would be a good
>     addition.

Exactly.

> -   icedove-uxp and iceweasel-uxp are likely to have similar dependencies
>     given they are a part of the hyperbola project. It will probably be
>     simple to write a package for iceweasel-uxp and iceape-uxp after
>     icedove-uxp is written.

True.

>     I think I can port icedove-uxp, and guixuser can use my code as a
>     template for iceweasel.

By port, do you mean packaging into guix?

Sure I can try that.

thanks.

Re: IceWeasel-UXP and IceDove-UXP

[Raghav Gururajan]

> I think I can port icedove-uxp, and guixuser can use my code as a
> template for iceweasel. It will help guixuser get comfortable with
> porting and fixing packages, which would be important if guixuser is
> to
> remain a guix user.

Hello Jesse!

It is great to hear that you are willing to work on this. I was just
planning yesterday to attempt porting those packages to guix. As you
said, it would be very helpful if you could port icedove-uxp and share
the patch. If guixuser not willing to work on this, I can try porting
iceweasel-uxp using your template. ☺

Thank you!

Regards,
RG.

Re: IceWeasel-UXP and IceDove-UXP

[guixuser]

[use this thread]

Budget? Are you serious? Any distro has to focus on their basic things like email and browser for new user; at least if project wants to grow and accommodate new users.

Re: IceWeasel-UXP and IceDove-UXP

[Jelle Licht]

Hey guixuser,

guixuser <guixuser@protonmail.com> writes:

> [use this thread]
>
> Budget? Are you serious? Any distro has to focus on their basic things like email and browser for new user; at least if project wants to grow and accommodate new users.

For at least your browsing needs, I know of two options.

Guix currently has IceCat, which is as close to FireFox as you can get
while still being a FSDG-distro. I assume that if one is used to
IceWeasel, using IceCat should feel very familiar. The only iffy part is
working with extensions that are not yet available in the IceCat
upstream list of supported web extensions.

There is also an `ungoogled-chromium' package, but be aware that this
can take quite some time to build on your local machine if no binary
substitutes are available.

Getting used to the guix way of doing things can take some time and
effort, but it is IMHO definitely worth the investment. Guix empowers
users to exert control over their computing in a way that few other
software does.

If you run into any unclear steps in the documentation or are missing
packages, there are usually people available on the mailing list or on
#guix on the Freenode IRC network to help you figure out how to get
something working.

Re: IceWeasel-UXP and IceDove-UXP

[Tobias Geerinckx-Rice]

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guixuser 写道：
> [use this thread]
>
> Budget? Are you serious?

Yes, of course.

Kind regards,

T G-R

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Re: IceWeasel-UXP and IceDove-UXP

[guixuser]

> Yes, of course.

Okay. If came of as aggressive, I apologize. All I am looking for is help. I do not have any kind of experience with packaging. So if you could do it, I appreciate. Again, sorry If I have conducted myself wrongly before.

Re: IceWeasel-UXP and IceDove-UXP

[Mark H Weaver]

Hello,

guixuser <guixuser@protonmail.com> writes:
> Asking the new users to package what they want and suggesting
> alternative applications; is like passively showing middle finger to
> them.

This idea seems to pop up from time to time, and I think it deserves a
closer look.

First of all, we're not asking you to do anything.  Rather, you are
asking us to do something.  You are asking us to do the development work
to add the packages you need.

For what it's worth, I've spent hundreds of hours over the last few
years maintaining the GNU IceCat package in Guix, and at least 40 hours
trying to get IceDove working.  Sorry, but I got stuck and ran out of
energy.  I'm under no moral obligation to finish that work.  I'm not
standing in the way of someone else doing it, and I never promised
anyone that I'd finish it.  Also, incidentally, I've never made a penny
from working on Guix.

You seem to be suggesting that my failure to finish this work is
tantamount to showing you my middle finger (which is a strong insult in
my culture, for the benefit of those who might not know).  More to the
point, you seem to be implying that I have a moral obligation to add the
missing packages that you desire.

Please keep in mind that we are not a business who sold you a product.
We are a widely dispersed group of volunteers from around the world who
built this system to meet our own needs, and we decided to offer it as a
gift to anyone else who wants it.  Moreover, we have taken pains to
ensure that you have the freedom to change this gift as you wish, to
better meet your own needs.

You apparently find this gift intriguing in some ways, but also
disappointing in other ways.  I'm sincerely sorry if this gift is not
satisfactory to you, but please understand that we are under no
obligation to do anything more for you.  That's not an insult, it's
simply me saying that you have no right to demand more of me.  If you
don't like the gift, don't use it.  No one is pushing it on you.

If you invited me to your home for dinner, and I didn't like the food,
should I feel entitled to demand that you go back into the kitchen and
cook my chosen dish?  If you told me "you're free to use the kitchen to
cook it yourself", should I take that as an insult?

      Mark

Iceweasel-UXP and Icedove-UXP

[Guix User]

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