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[78.147.226.53]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 7-20020a05600c22c700b003a03e63e428sm18001163wmg.36.2022.07.31.04.01.10 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sun, 31 Jul 2022 04:01:10 -0700 (PDT) References: <87edy2a7xb.fsf@beadling.co.uk> <961019EF-219A-4DAE-BED3-4DCB7BC386B8@yasuaki.com> <0c1f853a-f613-4ad2-9eda-05940cee5a23@gmail.com> User-agent: mu4e 1.4.15; emacs 27.2 From: Phil To: Benjamin Slade Cc: Yasuaki Kudo , Olivier Dion , help-guix@gnu.org Subject: Re: Enterprise Guix Hosting? In-reply-to: <0c1f853a-f613-4ad2-9eda-05940cee5a23@gmail.com> Message-ID: <87bkt5a6mi.fsf@beadling.co.uk> Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2022 12:01:09 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Received-SPF: none client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::42f; envelope-from=phil@beadling.co.uk; helo=mail-wr1-x42f.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: help-guix@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-guix-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Help-Guix" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-To: larch@yhetil.org X-Migadu-Country: US ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1659265298; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=n620GsvUXJ5JeC4if10Gnyl7oVYlvTNC7mk6Qho+qxI=; b=R6AqKI8IDNAjTkQR4IiLTcjiY35Pg9aEjBQjdXnliySBKDeY2ocAt5ZIglrkYgfzJuLQd1 gKMSQ04GLXaLLxFX/iykgnvGNzTVNS0ppPC2v+AsbtbJS3zyVaTmmnqkKhjSJ6ZTXACn0h FzHKxLTKgTFnI3fI2ATfzGeMoQoC/L06AyQeT0Ge2BLnj5qgpVxUXBs1Av4lEhUBTZN9tk w6x2Ldukx5qiySCNO4fGukzQ1PzCQRyTxfbekQanhwCTdkB7H9P83JKHxW82Gq72YWmqe8 U3cpq+WPqRjymODzob9PbKfKQnfVwNcB1Uj3W5NVv9M1dTJVU6EwdWAI398RRA== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1659265298; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=HYAUKaRv/if9y84wYBkx2+ZVoAbmhKGhprjrSAlh4lwRoPTAAIbKzBVLBqAb3+ZyaJe3cL iIVvXYgk0GLBy0aX9h7x1mDlvARSqDCzs7IV58BEkpgDemeDTKEpmx1r0hFaMbl8ozzZRV NWe+jLe87+e3lY4Lu+bxOimoLPB4NhYhCLc6OMZMkTfjaDqW1OU17UHQi5OBRA5NHMHBq0 yEZAxyBrK1MA86645dQx48dQMYMjQRu7C+5O7jwUSSLLsq4pBH8G9zUEsu8NtYUSERNVP9 dht6v9YLb82axAiKFOBeXOMTvaKKtBGioHlhFbKgMPsk3Ko8QXTOBCypJA3xlQ== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=beadling-co-uk.20210112.gappssmtp.com header.s=20210112 header.b=n9h48QGS; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "help-guix-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="help-guix-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -2.42 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=beadling-co-uk.20210112.gappssmtp.com header.s=20210112 header.b=n9h48QGS; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "help-guix-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="help-guix-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Queue-Id: ADE4C33725 X-Spam-Score: -2.42 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn1.migadu.com X-TUID: owehaVuIqmn8 Benjamin Slade writes: > Not something I've tried personally, but maybe PantherX (Guix-based) could be relevant here? https://www.pantherx.org/ This is very interesting - there is definately a niche to produce off-the-shelf guix-based enterprise solutions that a mainstream devops team could rollout and interface with "standard" tech tooling without having to learn (a lot of) Scheme. My own experience is that whilst it doesn't require a PhD to setup Guix for the enterprise, it is a non-trivial journey, and it does require a fair amount of time and effort to create something that regular developers/scientists (i.e. non-Guix converts who just want to get on with their day-jobs) accept is as good or better than regular tooling they are used to. There's certainly a barrier to entry for people who don't want to do a deep-dive and just want tooling to support them in their professional role, without them having to think about it too much. Upselling the real benefits of Guix like rollbacks, profiles, perfectly reproducable builds, swapping one dependency for another - even in a scientific/tech-savvy company with lots of PhDs took a bit of persuading from me. Even now I think our company is only using perhaps 30% of the true power of Guix. Making all that power accessible to people who just want to get on with their jobs in an easy, intuitive way is a challenge I'm continuously trying to address. I also hope things like PantherX might help bridge the gap in the near future!