From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp12.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:303:e224::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms8.migadu.com with LMTPS id mAQaEqyNZ2UYMgAAauVa8A:P1 (envelope-from ) for ; Wed, 29 Nov 2023 20:14:52 +0100 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:303:e224::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp12.migadu.com with LMTPS id mAQaEqyNZ2UYMgAAauVa8A (envelope-from ) for ; Wed, 29 Nov 2023 20:14:52 +0100 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2EDE2635BF for ; Wed, 29 Nov 2023 20:14:52 +0100 (CET) Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20230601 header.b=RRMTh4Np; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org"; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1701285292; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=DMV+9QH9nez1artZnAPjQDsi3DKxZN0n0uYFi7tEjCM=; b=gVQkyKuHpMMJfnYZFEnnGm8tKwsbVcZIOF2sPCEA002A+IKCC2RIQjngWOalJrJ5FxzkRS Pvx/907veKM+nPnG9c0TF4JkOiXXsIWEDd8Gr4jnz+HzvsYZjr6d4dvpqvFagrtEiPULgP le2AEfC+Wxpc2vhOq9c4IqZzPMx5ABNO4XR3ANMsa4giuRQPhDT4zZ+spof3aVrjMLLrhZ p3ymC8BFlSa447BDKUbCaleNU5pksRXg/LWGyHx16e8HbegxfOLXspU7ne5eEDTKndBatU yMrA7Ne8SmDGnXwpQt4dvz3kCI+tsDE+YnQ60OgDSKr0Rm+9x0v48YobUv1ihw== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20230601 header.b=RRMTh4Np; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org"; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1701285292; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=GWSpSyiGBpZqfDiS2qgCljrIHYXDlNgLIuPC/o1D5h6tyuuQ/AS0LIhiOXsmJe4F7KXlwj +DETCLt1ob/tZpLP0xgrIXNvjhityMO/4g6h7+8WI32u1m+Aljk/CTx3YnjiTSoMdnfSj7 EpHYdu9R6KowKWTPoh2sSKD/76GsPK9yS+jZmu/jkk8rzmthkcb7s6TZEg0lYZiX8fzTJx KSiOc89rH9lreZTw9qrWDr59mqT7CRA3fWDoYLGlhgnvPywEehTpsUnu0kdMfiwMevqS1F MWDzRHVY1LB8hFBF1fTV/Sp8Fm/v2Duh3IMamYsacMu6dFmHwVG/Br6gzYeKYw== Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1r8Q0r-0001Id-UK; Wed, 29 Nov 2023 14:14:21 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1r8Q0q-0001Hw-6I; Wed, 29 Nov 2023 14:14:20 -0500 Received: from mail-wr1-x42b.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::42b]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1r8Q0n-00044C-DP; Wed, 29 Nov 2023 14:14:19 -0500 Received: by mail-wr1-x42b.google.com with SMTP id ffacd0b85a97d-332eac4dec4so23091f8f.1; Wed, 29 Nov 2023 11:14:16 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1701285255; x=1701890055; darn=gnu.org; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:message-id:date:references :in-reply-to:subject:to:from:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=DMV+9QH9nez1artZnAPjQDsi3DKxZN0n0uYFi7tEjCM=; b=RRMTh4NpCKExX2Scrp4mXWAPV5DX7L09dN3tDs3sIwAUDGSWUqetkG6YOWX2hq/4Qe gFJnGqEIRcn0n2Jb2ppwil/gqH4vMf5V9tbU/pzf4/HfS3wW0Lw1gQ3WUBpep7yR2lJk Mw7V6CfDMFjMc2BDP+qMcQz0AwGW2jcMJ3YOxeNwRmiBIlWUxrdf4OWzO6p4je2QmuVR 6cn+L0sDFhmfYKRAmUus82C/WbxhhBFYygDpqf24zyU6UO17qAxK43xRJlM/3PH2OeAF aLoE7i+31UXORnVwtR0G6ianbAoCaBjBPZxmMK2AHIs8rmVayCNxyf9OldtDY35STOuJ h4/w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1701285255; x=1701890055; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:message-id:date:references :in-reply-to:subject:to:from:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject :date:message-id:reply-to; bh=DMV+9QH9nez1artZnAPjQDsi3DKxZN0n0uYFi7tEjCM=; b=neuJiro1j/RRJENScV3gvqapRcV7cb4kedDILkBexNZwUwNj/321yiT6ysgX0aL89O ufR31rpoDAovy0X/eIm2dxLkAT8gKXIdjDh6hQg9PVQ4B8ABkm2BHzhmrWOQyfgzzRHk Cd3kYFmTUYhdFhBFkmSN+t8/q/BPfctD1AU0QX8BdH/U/pOzERkClfHVcaJDbkPB1vPE GTUEncOj2J6JPxjMjsBkXrnyA6qAO3llmR++Bz55cBIKFY4QIAm2CksKzggIL7s0v976 T3eQTC7Ok07RA8SaIxur0UWseE0FA5DDt4x3niUDYSL/8feSN27Y4GnloLlI8OqMBWoM 5Kbw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yyxj0Z4Gt/zAHKPN/CG4NG6l1vMjTc/GK11jgqAMs0n/TqwID4h n4fXS8mkvFkNY3y8fRMnWvKaLjZjOSE= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IF+0Q1uEojpYPizY92AzZKGJxACiVNP2PO85dwTGjiXZcfq9xYfDR8BjyHpzBtmbKlXFSQ3ug== X-Received: by 2002:adf:fccb:0:b0:332:fb6a:6206 with SMTP id f11-20020adffccb000000b00332fb6a6206mr7618171wrs.2.1701285255120; Wed, 29 Nov 2023 11:14:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from lili (2a01cb04060a11006ed8a3f59c74d082.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr. [2a01:cb04:60a:1100:6ed8:a3f5:9c74:d082]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id dr22-20020a5d5f96000000b00333018c4b2asm9051314wrb.71.2023.11.29.11.14.14 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Wed, 29 Nov 2023 11:14:14 -0800 (PST) From: Simon Tournier To: Guix Europe , Guix Devel , help-guix Subject: Feedback (was Re: Meet Guix at Capitole du Libre in Toulouse) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2023 17:01:12 +0100 Message-ID: <874jh4sg53.fsf@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::42b; envelope-from=zimon.toutoune@gmail.com; helo=mail-wr1-x42b.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -4 X-Spam_score: -0.5 X-Spam_bar: / X-Spam_report: (-0.5 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DATE_IN_PAST_03_06=1.592, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Country: US X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -9.45 X-Spam-Score: -9.45 X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 2EDE2635BF X-Migadu-Scanner: mx12.migadu.com X-TUID: gZo91F+XFF3x Hi, Thanks all people! It was a very interesting experience for me and a very good moment. I hope that we will do again in the near future. As a record for the next time, let me mention two points that help: 1. Demos! It seems very helpful to have both: Guix System and Guix on foreign distro. Depending on the people, some are interested by one or the other. Mainly, what mark points (main selling arguments ;-)) Guix on foreign distro: =20=20=20=20 a) do not interact with foreign distro =3D> good complement and rolling release b) containerized shell =3D> please developers Guix System: =20=20=20=20 a) roll-back b) transactional c) roll-back at GRUB level 2. An explanation about what makes Guix different compared to X where X is: i) classical distro as Arch, Gentoo, Debian, etc. ii) Nix and NixOS Sadly, we do not have a clear story for ii) IMHO. Well, from my point of view, the main difference is the continuous* approach of Guix =E2=80=93 the same =E2=80=9Clanguage=E2=80=9C from declari= ng packages or OS configuration to Guix core; except the daemon, another story. ;-) Well, that =E2=80=9Clanguage=E2=80=9D allows to implement a powerful solution as = G-expression tackling, among other things, string interpolation. It could be nice if we could collectively draft a short FAQ about what Guix is and Guix is not, answering such common questions. Cheers, simon *continuous approach: The Emacs Thesis :-) ---------------------- The story of Guile is the story of bringing the development experience of Emacs to the mass of programs on a GNU system. Emacs, when it was first created in its GNU form in 1984, was a new take on the problem of =E2=80=9Chow to make a program=E2=80=9D. The Emacs = thesis is that it is delightful to create composite programs based on an orthogonal kernel written in a low-level language together with a powerful, high-level extension language. Extension languages foster extensible programs, programs which adapt readily to different users and to changing times. Proof of this can be seen in Emacs=E2=80=99 current and continued existence, spanning more than a quarter-century. Besides providing for modification of a program by others, extension languages are good for _intension_ as well. Programs built in =E2=80=9Cthe Emacs way=E2=80=9D are pleasurable and easy for their authors to flesh out = with the features that they need. After the Emacs experience was appreciated more widely, a number of hackers started to consider how to spread this experience to the rest of the GNU system. It was clear that the easiest way to Emacsify a program would be to embed a shared language implementation into it.