From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: <guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org>
Received: from mp12.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:303:e224::])
	(using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits))
	by ms8.migadu.com with LMTPS
	id mAQaEqyNZ2UYMgAAauVa8A:P1
	(envelope-from <guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org>)
	for <larch@yhetil.org>; Wed, 29 Nov 2023 20:14:52 +0100
Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:303:e224::])
	(using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits))
	by mp12.migadu.com with LMTPS
	id mAQaEqyNZ2UYMgAAauVa8A
	(envelope-from <guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org>)
	for <larch@yhetil.org>; Wed, 29 Nov 2023 20:14:52 +0100
Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17])
	(using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits))
	(No client certificate requested)
	by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2EDE2635BF
	for <larch@yhetil.org>; Wed, 29 Nov 2023 20:14:52 +0100 (CET)
Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com;
	dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20230601 header.b=RRMTh4Np;
	spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org";
	dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com
ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org;
	s=key1; t=1701285292;
	h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:
	 message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version:
	 content-type:content-type:
	 content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding:
	 in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help:
	 list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature;
	bh=DMV+9QH9nez1artZnAPjQDsi3DKxZN0n0uYFi7tEjCM=;
	b=gVQkyKuHpMMJfnYZFEnnGm8tKwsbVcZIOF2sPCEA002A+IKCC2RIQjngWOalJrJ5FxzkRS
	Pvx/907veKM+nPnG9c0TF4JkOiXXsIWEDd8Gr4jnz+HzvsYZjr6d4dvpqvFagrtEiPULgP
	le2AEfC+Wxpc2vhOq9c4IqZzPMx5ABNO4XR3ANMsa4giuRQPhDT4zZ+spof3aVrjMLLrhZ
	p3ymC8BFlSa447BDKUbCaleNU5pksRXg/LWGyHx16e8HbegxfOLXspU7ne5eEDTKndBatU
	yMrA7Ne8SmDGnXwpQt4dvz3kCI+tsDE+YnQ60OgDSKr0Rm+9x0v48YobUv1ihw==
ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1;
	aspmx1.migadu.com;
	dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20230601 header.b=RRMTh4Np;
	spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org";
	dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com
ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1701285292; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none;
	b=GWSpSyiGBpZqfDiS2qgCljrIHYXDlNgLIuPC/o1D5h6tyuuQ/AS0LIhiOXsmJe4F7KXlwj
	+DETCLt1ob/tZpLP0xgrIXNvjhityMO/4g6h7+8WI32u1m+Aljk/CTx3YnjiTSoMdnfSj7
	EpHYdu9R6KowKWTPoh2sSKD/76GsPK9yS+jZmu/jkk8rzmthkcb7s6TZEg0lYZiX8fzTJx
	KSiOc89rH9lreZTw9qrWDr59mqT7CRA3fWDoYLGlhgnvPywEehTpsUnu0kdMfiwMevqS1F
	MWDzRHVY1LB8hFBF1fTV/Sp8Fm/v2Duh3IMamYsacMu6dFmHwVG/Br6gzYeKYw==
Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org)
	by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1)
	(envelope-from <guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org>)
	id 1r8Q0r-0001Id-UK; Wed, 29 Nov 2023 14:14:21 -0500
Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10])
 by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256)
 (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <zimon.toutoune@gmail.com>)
 id 1r8Q0q-0001Hw-6I; Wed, 29 Nov 2023 14:14:20 -0500
Received: from mail-wr1-x42b.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::42b])
 by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128)
 (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <zimon.toutoune@gmail.com>)
 id 1r8Q0n-00044C-DP; Wed, 29 Nov 2023 14:14:19 -0500
Received: by mail-wr1-x42b.google.com with SMTP id
 ffacd0b85a97d-332eac4dec4so23091f8f.1; 
 Wed, 29 Nov 2023 11:14:16 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
 d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1701285255; x=1701890055; darn=gnu.org;
 h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:message-id:date:references
 :in-reply-to:subject:to:from:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id
 :reply-to; bh=DMV+9QH9nez1artZnAPjQDsi3DKxZN0n0uYFi7tEjCM=;
 b=RRMTh4NpCKExX2Scrp4mXWAPV5DX7L09dN3tDs3sIwAUDGSWUqetkG6YOWX2hq/4Qe
 gFJnGqEIRcn0n2Jb2ppwil/gqH4vMf5V9tbU/pzf4/HfS3wW0Lw1gQ3WUBpep7yR2lJk
 Mw7V6CfDMFjMc2BDP+qMcQz0AwGW2jcMJ3YOxeNwRmiBIlWUxrdf4OWzO6p4je2QmuVR
 6cn+L0sDFhmfYKRAmUus82C/WbxhhBFYygDpqf24zyU6UO17qAxK43xRJlM/3PH2OeAF
 aLoE7i+31UXORnVwtR0G6ianbAoCaBjBPZxmMK2AHIs8rmVayCNxyf9OldtDY35STOuJ
 h4/w==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
 d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1701285255; x=1701890055;
 h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:message-id:date:references
 :in-reply-to:subject:to:from:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject
 :date:message-id:reply-to;
 bh=DMV+9QH9nez1artZnAPjQDsi3DKxZN0n0uYFi7tEjCM=;
 b=neuJiro1j/RRJENScV3gvqapRcV7cb4kedDILkBexNZwUwNj/321yiT6ysgX0aL89O
 ufR31rpoDAovy0X/eIm2dxLkAT8gKXIdjDh6hQg9PVQ4B8ABkm2BHzhmrWOQyfgzzRHk
 Cd3kYFmTUYhdFhBFkmSN+t8/q/BPfctD1AU0QX8BdH/U/pOzERkClfHVcaJDbkPB1vPE
 GTUEncOj2J6JPxjMjsBkXrnyA6qAO3llmR++Bz55cBIKFY4QIAm2CksKzggIL7s0v976
 T3eQTC7Ok07RA8SaIxur0UWseE0FA5DDt4x3niUDYSL/8feSN27Y4GnloLlI8OqMBWoM
 5Kbw==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yyxj0Z4Gt/zAHKPN/CG4NG6l1vMjTc/GK11jgqAMs0n/TqwID4h
 n4fXS8mkvFkNY3y8fRMnWvKaLjZjOSE=
X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IF+0Q1uEojpYPizY92AzZKGJxACiVNP2PO85dwTGjiXZcfq9xYfDR8BjyHpzBtmbKlXFSQ3ug==
X-Received: by 2002:adf:fccb:0:b0:332:fb6a:6206 with SMTP id
 f11-20020adffccb000000b00332fb6a6206mr7618171wrs.2.1701285255120; 
 Wed, 29 Nov 2023 11:14:15 -0800 (PST)
Received: from lili (2a01cb04060a11006ed8a3f59c74d082.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr.
 [2a01:cb04:60a:1100:6ed8:a3f5:9c74:d082])
 by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id
 dr22-20020a5d5f96000000b00333018c4b2asm9051314wrb.71.2023.11.29.11.14.14
 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256);
 Wed, 29 Nov 2023 11:14:14 -0800 (PST)
From: Simon Tournier <zimon.toutoune@gmail.com>
To: Guix Europe <guix-europe@gnu.org>, Guix Devel <guix-devel@gnu.org>,
 help-guix <help-guix@gnu.org>
Subject: Feedback (was Re: Meet Guix at Capitole du Libre in Toulouse)
In-Reply-To: <CAJ3okZ2G0ASFA4AVEKtk+D3YWOhJPTja1VBLBXOQYJv4sZ7eOg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJ3okZ2G0ASFA4AVEKtk+D3YWOhJPTja1VBLBXOQYJv4sZ7eOg@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2023 17:01:12 +0100
Message-ID: <874jh4sg53.fsf@gmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::42b;
 envelope-from=zimon.toutoune@gmail.com; helo=mail-wr1-x42b.google.com
X-Spam_score_int: -4
X-Spam_score: -0.5
X-Spam_bar: /
X-Spam_report: (-0.5 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DATE_IN_PAST_03_06=1.592,
 DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1,
 FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001,
 SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no
X-Spam_action: no action
X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution."
 <guix-devel.gnu.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/options/guix-devel>,
 <mailto:guix-devel-request@gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guix-devel>
List-Post: <mailto:guix-devel@gnu.org>
List-Help: <mailto:guix-devel-request@gnu.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/guix-devel>,
 <mailto:guix-devel-request@gnu.org?subject=subscribe>
Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org
Sender: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org
X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN
X-Migadu-Country: US
X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -9.45
X-Spam-Score: -9.45
X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 2EDE2635BF
X-Migadu-Scanner: mx12.migadu.com
X-TUID: gZo91F+XFF3x

Hi,

Thanks all people!  It was a very interesting experience for me and a
very good moment.  I hope that we will do again in the near future.

As a record for the next time, let me mention two points that help:

 1. Demos!  It seems very helpful to have both: Guix System and Guix on
    foreign distro.  Depending on the people, some are interested by one
    or the other.  Mainly, what mark points (main selling arguments ;-))

    Guix on foreign distro:
=20=20=20=20
      a) do not interact with foreign distro
          =3D> good complement and rolling release
      b) containerized  shell
          =3D> please developers

    Guix System:
=20=20=20=20
      a) roll-back
      b) transactional
      c) roll-back at GRUB level

 2. An explanation about what makes Guix different compared to X

    where X is:

    i) classical distro as Arch, Gentoo, Debian, etc.
    ii) Nix and NixOS

Sadly, we do not have a clear story for ii) IMHO.

Well, from my point of view, the main difference is the continuous*
approach of Guix =E2=80=93 the same =E2=80=9Clanguage=E2=80=9C from declari=
ng packages or OS
configuration to Guix core; except the daemon, another story. ;-) Well,
that =E2=80=9Clanguage=E2=80=9D allows to implement a powerful solution as =
G-expression
tackling, among other things, string interpolation.

It could be nice if we could collectively draft a short FAQ about what
Guix is and Guix is not, answering such common questions.


Cheers,
simon


*continuous approach: The Emacs Thesis :-)
----------------------

The story of Guile is the story of bringing the development experience
of Emacs to the mass of programs on a GNU system.

   Emacs, when it was first created in its GNU form in 1984, was a new
take on the problem of =E2=80=9Chow to make a program=E2=80=9D.  The Emacs =
thesis is
that it is delightful to create composite programs based on an
orthogonal kernel written in a low-level language together with a
powerful, high-level extension language.

   Extension languages foster extensible programs, programs which adapt
readily to different users and to changing times.  Proof of this can be
seen in Emacs=E2=80=99 current and continued existence, spanning more than a
quarter-century.

   Besides providing for modification of a program by others, extension
languages are good for _intension_ as well.  Programs built in =E2=80=9Cthe
Emacs way=E2=80=9D are pleasurable and easy for their authors to flesh out =
with
the features that they need.

   After the Emacs experience was appreciated more widely, a number of
hackers started to consider how to spread this experience to the rest of
the GNU system.  It was clear that the easiest way to Emacsify a program
would be to embed a shared language implementation into it.