From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: myglc2@gmail.com Subject: Re: common software Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2018 19:05:36 -0500 Message-ID: <86y3kgw6r3.fsf@gmail.com> References: <20180128122259.77acba52@jasniac.instanton> <871si9twey.fsf@elephly.net> <87o9lck393.fsf@gnu.org> <86372o7bkv.fsf@gmail.com> <87r2q8sci9.fsf@elephly.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Return-path: Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:52459) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1egJQk-0002f2-Hu for help-guix@gnu.org; Mon, 29 Jan 2018 19:05:44 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1egJQh-0005gC-Bt for help-guix@gnu.org; Mon, 29 Jan 2018 19:05:42 -0500 In-Reply-To: <87r2q8sci9.fsf@elephly.net> (Ricardo Wurmus's message of "Mon, 29 Jan 2018 20:14:54 +0100") List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-guix-bounces+gcggh-help-guix=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sender: "Help-Guix" To: Ricardo Wurmus Cc: help-guix@gnu.org, Marco van Hulten Hi Ricardo, On 01/29/2018 at 20:14 Ricardo Wurmus writes: > Hi George, > >> But Ludo=E2=80=99 what is convenient for you is not convenient for the G= uix >> noob: They are most likely already using a mainstream GNU/Linux distro >> on a notebook or desktop. When they try any other distro they expect it >> to provide similar stuff to what their distro provided out of the box. >> By not doing this we a) fail to meet expectations and b) force them into >> the Guix config-o-rama, which, if we are honest, is not friendly: it's >> in scheme, far from obvious, and produces errors that helpful only to >> someone who already understands Guix. > > Re errors: recently this has greatly been improved. I=E2=80=99m now told= that > I probably forgot to include a certain module, and how I can fix it. > Granted, simple syntax errors aren=E2=80=99t reported nicely, but that=E2= =80=99s a > problem in Guile (and there=E2=80=99s a bug report for it). > Yes it has been improved. > But that=E2=80=99s beside the point: users who install software they need= into > their user profile do not do this in the operating system configuration! > So they don=E2=80=99t have to touch it at all to get things like =E2=80= =9Cfile=E2=80=9D or > =E2=80=9Cwget=E2=80=9D. > Good point. But if they want wget to appear at startup in a user account, adding it to system config is the only way to go, right? > I also think you=E2=80=99re greatly exaggerating the =E2=80=9Cunfriendlin= ess=E2=80=9D of Guix > configuration. > OK, I reread it. I apologize for "config-o-rama". SORRY ;-( Otherwise I think I was being pretty objective. >> This is why we should change the templates so that GuixSD comes OOTB >> with the same stuff as any mainstream distro. IOW, we should quickly get >> the noob running GuixSD and only then show them how cool guix-profile >> is. > > Guix is all about user freedom. Providing a bigger set of defaults > isn=E2=80=99t really helping, because then we=E2=80=99re then telling oth= er people to > remove the packages from their configs if they don=E2=80=99t like them. = I much > prefer a constructive approach where you *add* what you want rather than > remove what you find was installed without your knowledge. > > We already have configuration templates for different systems: > bare-bones, lightweight-desktop, and desktop. We could add more: > audio-workstation (for common recording tools, preconfigured JACK, and > some extra kernel settings), graphics-workstation (blender, gimp, > imagemagick, etc), =E2=80=A6 But I=E2=80=99d leave that up to whoever fee= ls like > maintaining and testing these templates. Yes, global packages are against the Guix mantra ;-) But it is easier for a noob to remove them than add them. So, IMO we should err on the side of putting more in the template with comments saying, effectively, "these are training wheels to be removed once you learn to ride Guix."