From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: myglc2@gmail.com Subject: Re: common software Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2018 13:40:32 -0500 Message-ID: <86372o7bkv.fsf@gmail.com> References: <20180128122259.77acba52@jasniac.instanton> <871si9twey.fsf@elephly.net> <87o9lck393.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Return-path: Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:38746) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1egEMD-0001Lc-67 for help-guix@gnu.org; Mon, 29 Jan 2018 13:40:44 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1egEM7-0008Qg-Rq for help-guix@gnu.org; Mon, 29 Jan 2018 13:40:41 -0500 In-Reply-To: <87o9lck393.fsf@gnu.org> ("Ludovic \=\?utf-8\?Q\?Court\=C3\=A8s\=22'\?\= \=\?utf-8\?Q\?s\?\= message of "Mon, 29 Jan 2018 18:02:00 +0100") List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-guix-bounces+gcggh-help-guix=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sender: "Help-Guix" To: Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= Cc: help-guix@gnu.org, Marco van Hulten On 01/29/2018 at 18:02 Ludovic Court=C3=A8s writes: > Hi, > > Ricardo Wurmus skribis: > >>> Even though there is some subjectivity in what is essential software, a >>> clean installation of GuixSD is very minimal. Is there a reason for >>> this? >> >> The reason is primarily that with Guix it is *possible* to do so. It >> allows different users on the same system to have different sets of >> software; as you wrote this is a very subjective decision, so we simply >> leave it up to the user. > > Also, I find it more convenient to have applications I use in > ~/.guix-profile rather than in the =E2=80=98packages=E2=80=99 field of my > =E2=80=98operating-system=E2=80=99: I can install them, upgrade them, etc= . whenever I > want, independently of the system config. But Ludo=E2=80=99 what is convenient for you is not convenient for the Guix noob: They are most likely already using a mainstream GNU/Linux distro on a notebook or desktop. When they try any other distro they expect it to provide similar stuff to what their distro provided out of the box. By not doing this we a) fail to meet expectations and b) force them into the Guix config-o-rama, which, if we are honest, is not friendly: it's in scheme, far from obvious, and produces errors that helpful only to someone who already understands Guix. I remember my own experience 2 years ago: It felt like a religious purification ritual ;-) What is the benefit of subjecting noobs to this? Force them onto the Guix path? Send them to Guix boot camp? I don't see any benefit to the noob of us going this. Do you? This is why we should change the templates so that GuixSD comes OOTB with the same stuff as any mainstream distro. IOW, we should quickly get the noob running GuixSD and only then show them how cool guix-profile is. WDYT? - George