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([2601:589:4900:c80:f5dd:674d:75d9:578]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id d19sm168682qtb.47.2021.11.08.17.36.08 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 08 Nov 2021 17:36:09 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <8433ab7e-1540-37ff-e647-8e8da01e07fb@philipmcgrath.com> Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2021 20:36:08 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.2.1 Subject: Re: How to add /bin/sh to the build environment Content-Language: en-US To: Leo Famulari , Xinglu Chen , help-guix@gnu.org References: <87bl2u37wr.fsf@disroot.org> From: Philip McGrath In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Host-Lookup-Failed: Reverse DNS lookup failed for 2607:f8b0:4864:20::f34 (failed) Received-SPF: neutral client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::f34; envelope-from=philip@philipmcgrath.com; helo=mail-qv1-xf34.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -35 X-Spam_score: -3.6 X-Spam_bar: --- X-Spam_report: (-3.6 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, NICE_REPLY_A=-3.06, PDS_HP_HELO_NORDNS=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RDNS_NONE=0.793, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NEUTRAL=0.779 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: help-guix@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-guix-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Help-Guix" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1636421895; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=mK9gTbs0si+Ehc0aog0vmyItv1SLmYj25EIL1XQQoyE=; b=lQVQjbizSB87y4gdCdkjt/edXhom5W10mmcwS+juSk2TTCuHKr0XWTVou2hJ2xCgrjofBa YEoANJuBSc/WFzMsVGy6jS7gy8FngHmObhSO/3/to+zbfZNGPoaICars7pWkvq+EAlMXEU 0DdJgRGOy9CPqDB73vi9smxWZQtCH5kLHKM149aJDF/RoUJE8m1JGwTYezN6Lpb3siDkum Z04vadMZaaSyZbJ0lq6icJ1G6BnC4qxg9gsjjiS+IY3s7X2yh7ARabDbHNyy59VD0eEcIz DnjmtTVY6WDl5FoBH6c8kGCQYwX81UsBeDSNfV8FzG5vwGKqU8zCo9TXTt4N0Q== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1636421895; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=ujMwsokCzftnT+MnBe+MUgPiMw0cKE7ME+vyrNLzHJ44zMJhqjgoy8PePH9ALzfzEx2MsW 0SQkclVt/2ysOFpAon6UF4B42V81vw9SjfFoNby7hA09aUJmi8JHrwlSs4GSz9Su5kfLB8 D59mdSb1z9GvXls9YgvYVrCtmwI3mXzY/wp6dDBQFJgdk23/Js6xBuVUy7y/7xZhJEfUyy EWjWeGw9G/iEXRf10vywFNAL3SbHYrcRiwC03xo1AdXj0eH9B9RqCqQBnRduiryXPaq3B6 3XlnxhoRE3b403+JNhpRu5VpNzKOkk6PwdPW1R7fbAYjTpM22/W4K+ajy3mpOA== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=philipmcgrath.com header.s=google header.b=DP4FGgUG; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of help-guix-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=help-guix-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -2.62 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=philipmcgrath.com header.s=google header.b=DP4FGgUG; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of help-guix-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=help-guix-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: C3967284C1 X-Spam-Score: -2.62 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: OLrwhrT36pP8 (I wrote my earlier reply before I saw Leo's.) On 11/8/21 17:23, Leo Famulari wrote: > It will be necessary to fix this issue in the SML/NJ package definition > (I think you've done this in a followup patch) Is this , or somewhere else? > Guix does not > accept packages that rely on pre-built binaries — everything must be > built from source code. There are some exceptions but I don't think that > SML/NJ will qualify due to its obscurity compared to other language > implementations. If SML/NJ cannot be built without the binary bootfiles, > it probably won't be eligible for inclusion in GNU Guix. Mostly I wanted to follow up to say that, from my perspective, SML/NJ is a very noteworthy and influential language implementation. Perhaps the most familiar example for Guix folks would be that Guile's fibers are based on Concurrent ML, which is an SML/NJ extension: https://wingolog.org/archives/2017/06/29/a-new-concurrent-ml Personally I've only read ML, not written it, but from a Debian bug I found through searching online (), it appears that there are no known Standard ML implementations that avoid this bootstrapping problem. SML/NJ, in addition to being one of the most important implementations in its own right, is apparently capable of bootstrapping at least one other implementation, MLton. (Unlike some on that thread, I don't consider the 5x slowdown for the bootstrap build to be prohibitive: bootstrapping Chez Scheme via Racket has a 10x slowdown.) It is very valuable that Guix maintains such high standards for bootstrapping from source. However, Guix does still contain some compilers that have bootstrapping limitations. SML/NJ is no worse that Chez Scheme in this respect, and comparably important. (One difference is that there is a path to backporting the bootstrap simulation from Racket's fork to the upstream variant, which would remove the problem---but I don't that wasn't true when Chez Scheme was first added to Guix.) The status quo is that no Standard ML language implementation at all seems to be in Guix. I think including SML/NJ would be better than waiting for someone to write a hypothetical Standard ML compiler in a host language with a better bootstrapping story. -Philip