text editor

text editor

[Gottfried]

Hi, thanks for Your email.
I am not sitting the whole day in front of a computer, I am working in a 
technical job to help people.

So I didn´t have time to learn any computer language, emacs etc. because 
I didn´t need it for my life yet.

Which editor You would propose , I should use, to show which brackets 
belong to each other, as you described in your email?

I guess emacs is too difficult for me to learn, because it would make 
sense only, if I used it regularly.
So it would be good a more simple editor.

gottfried



Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2022 20:34:05 +0000 ()
From: Jay Sulzberger <jays@panix.com>
To: help-guix@gnu.org
Subject: Re: scanner
Message-ID: <Pine.NEB.4.64.2202211947560.7652@panix3.panix.com>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed

Dear Gottfried <gottfried@posteo.de>, I use an editor which allows me
to check whether a bit of text is a well formed sexp, that is, a well
formed Lisp expression.  I do not have Guile on the machine I am
writing this on, but I am writing using Emacs.

Here is a syntactically, well, at the level of sexps, well formed
version of your Guix expression:

(services
   (append
    (list (service mate-desktop-service-type)
          (service enlightenment-desktop-service-type)
          (service cups-service-type
                   (cups-configuration
                    (web-interface? #t)
                    (extensions (list cups-filters
                                      hplip))))
          (service openssh-service-type)
          (service tor-service-type)
          (set-xorg-configuration
           (xorg-configuration
            (keyboard-layout keyboard-layout))))
    (modify-services %desktop-services
                     (sane-service-type _ => sane-backends))))

I got this by typing the following into an emacs buffer:

(services
   (append
     (list (service mate-desktop-service-type)
   (service enlightenment-desktop-service-type)
   (service cups-service-type
   (cups-configuration
   (web-interface? #t)
    (extensions (list cups-filters
   hplip))))
   (service openssh-service-type)
   (service tor-service-type)
   (set-xorg-configuration
    (xorg-configuration
    (keyboard-layout keyboard-layout))))
    (modify-services %desktop-services
                     (sane-service-type _ => sane-backends))

which is, I think, the thing you sent to the help-guix list.

I then added a single parenthesis onto your expression and Emacs
showed me that the new right parenthesis matched the left parenthesis
on the second line of your expression.  That is, the left parenthesis
in

   (append

I then added one more right parenthesis, which Emacs showed me matched
the first left parenthesis of your whole expression.  That is, the
left parenthesis in

(services

Assuming Emacs is correct in matching parentheses, the result, as
shown at top, is a Lisply correct sexp.  But it may, or may not, be a
Guixly syntactically correct expression, because the Guix system may
have more constraints on what it accepts as a command, beyond the
constraint of being a proper sexp.

I remain, as ever, your fellow student of history and probability,
Jay Sulzberger


PS. I got the Lisp-traditional (well, a Lisp traditional) indentation
of the (text representation of) the first expression by asking Emacs
to perform:

indent-sexp

on an un-indented version.

PPS. Reading more carefully your post to help-guix, I now understand
that you already completely grasp the main meat of my note.  But as a
member in mostly good standing of the Emacs Tendency of the Front for
Free Software, I send this note.

Re: text editor

[Julien Lepiller]

Hi Gottfried,

If you don't feel ready for emacs, I would suggest you try Gedit. It's
a graphical text editor with basic functionalities like syntax
highlighting. It won't do as much as emacs or vim, but it should be
very easy to use :)

Le Tue, 22 Feb 2022 18:14:32 +0000,
Gottfried <gottfried@posteo.de> a écrit :

> Hi, thanks for Your email.
> I am not sitting the whole day in front of a computer, I am working
> in a technical job to help people.
> 
> So I didn´t have time to learn any computer language, emacs etc.
> because I didn´t need it for my life yet.
> 
> Which editor You would propose , I should use, to show which brackets 
> belong to each other, as you described in your email?
> 
> I guess emacs is too difficult for me to learn, because it would make 
> sense only, if I used it regularly.
> So it would be good a more simple editor.
> 
> gottfried
> 
> 
> 
> Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2022 20:34:05 +0000 ()
> From: Jay Sulzberger <jays@panix.com>
> To: help-guix@gnu.org
> Subject: Re: scanner
> Message-ID: <Pine.NEB.4.64.2202211947560.7652@panix3.panix.com>
> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
> 
> Dear Gottfried <gottfried@posteo.de>, I use an editor which allows me
> to check whether a bit of text is a well formed sexp, that is, a well
> formed Lisp expression.  I do not have Guile on the machine I am
> writing this on, but I am writing using Emacs.
> 
> Here is a syntactically, well, at the level of sexps, well formed
> version of your Guix expression:
> 
> (services
>    (append
>     (list (service mate-desktop-service-type)
>           (service enlightenment-desktop-service-type)
>           (service cups-service-type
>                    (cups-configuration
>                     (web-interface? #t)
>                     (extensions (list cups-filters
>                                       hplip))))
>           (service openssh-service-type)
>           (service tor-service-type)
>           (set-xorg-configuration
>            (xorg-configuration
>             (keyboard-layout keyboard-layout))))
>     (modify-services %desktop-services
>                      (sane-service-type _ => sane-backends))))
> 
> I got this by typing the following into an emacs buffer:
> 
> (services
>    (append
>      (list (service mate-desktop-service-type)
>    (service enlightenment-desktop-service-type)
>    (service cups-service-type
>    (cups-configuration
>    (web-interface? #t)
>     (extensions (list cups-filters
>    hplip))))
>    (service openssh-service-type)
>    (service tor-service-type)
>    (set-xorg-configuration
>     (xorg-configuration
>     (keyboard-layout keyboard-layout))))
>     (modify-services %desktop-services
>                      (sane-service-type _ => sane-backends))
> 
> which is, I think, the thing you sent to the help-guix list.
> 
> I then added a single parenthesis onto your expression and Emacs
> showed me that the new right parenthesis matched the left parenthesis
> on the second line of your expression.  That is, the left parenthesis
> in
> 
>    (append
> 
> I then added one more right parenthesis, which Emacs showed me matched
> the first left parenthesis of your whole expression.  That is, the
> left parenthesis in
> 
> (services
> 
> Assuming Emacs is correct in matching parentheses, the result, as
> shown at top, is a Lisply correct sexp.  But it may, or may not, be a
> Guixly syntactically correct expression, because the Guix system may
> have more constraints on what it accepts as a command, beyond the
> constraint of being a proper sexp.
> 
> I remain, as ever, your fellow student of history and probability,
> Jay Sulzberger
> 
> 
> PS. I got the Lisp-traditional (well, a Lisp traditional) indentation
> of the (text representation of) the first expression by asking Emacs
> to perform:
> 
> indent-sexp
> 
> on an un-indented version.
> 
> PPS. Reading more carefully your post to help-guix, I now understand
> that you already completely grasp the main meat of my note.  But as a
> member in mostly good standing of the Emacs Tendency of the Front for
> Free Software, I send this note.
> 

Re: text editor

[Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide]

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Hi Gottfried,

Gottfried <gottfried@posteo.de> writes:

> I guess emacs is too difficult for me to learn, because it would make
> sense only, if I used it regularly.
> So it would be good a more simple editor.

A friend of mine is a writer as a hobby — writing about 3 months a year.
He works with Emacs without problems, and without going too deep.

For starters just activate cua-mode.

Then get typing. Feel free to use the menu and toolbar, even if
old-timers often don’t. You won’t need all of Emacs’ features, but you
will learn to deeply appreciate the ones that fit your style of working.

Best wishes,
Arne
-- 
Unpolitisch sein
heißt politisch sein,
ohne es zu merken.
draketo.de

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Re: text editor

[Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide]

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Hi Gottfried,
"Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide" <arne_bab@web.de> writes:
>> I guess emacs is too difficult for me to learn, because it would make
>> sense only, if I used it regularly.
>> So it would be good a more simple editor.
> For starters just activate cua-mode.
>
> Then get typing. Feel free to use the menu and toolbar, even if
> old-timers often don’t. You won’t need all of Emacs’ features, but you
> will learn to deeply appreciate the ones that fit your style of working.

Afterthought: There is one essential command that it not in the menu:
CTRL-g (abort).

If there’s an error or something in the area at the bottom that you do
not want to answer, or if anything else is unclear, just hit CTRL-g.
Everything else can be done via the menu or toolbar or by answering
questions in the field at the bottom.

Best wishes,
Arne
-- 
Unpolitisch sein
heißt politisch sein,
ohne es zu merken.
draketo.de

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Re: text editor

[Jay Sulzberger]

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On Tue, 22 Feb 2022, Gottfried <gottfried@posteo.de> wrote:

> Hi, thanks for Your email.

De nada and you are very welcome!

> I am not sitting the whole day in front of a computer, I am working in a 
> technical job to help people.
>
> So I didn´t have time to learn any computer language, emacs etc. because I 
> didn´t need it for my life yet.
>
> Which editor You would propose , I should use, to show which brackets belong 
> to each other, as you described in your email?

These days, well for some decades, I use Emacs.  I think Emacs can be
learned bit by bit.  Usually I run Emacs in an X "terminal emulator".
(Today at home, konsole is the X terminal emulator I use.)  So usually I
have the terminal with the bash shell running in it.  The below command

   guacamole:~$ mkdir EXAMPLES
   guacamole:~$ cd EXAMPLES
   guacamole:~/EXAMPLES$ echo "abc ABC (* 6 7)" >> example
   guacamole:~/EXAMPLES$ ls -l
   total 4
   -rw-r--r-- 1 guaca guaca 16 Feb 22 13:43 example
   guacamole:~/EXAMPLES$ cat example
   abc ABC (* 6 7)
   guacamole:~/EXAMPLES$

So you are now in the directory

   ~/EXAMPLES

If you now issue the command

   emacs -nw example

Emacs starts up and you are thrown into Emacs.  Your screen looks
something like this (actually no spaces on the left):

   File Edit Options Buffers Tools Help
   abc ABC (* 6 7)



































   -UU-:----F1  example        All L2     (Fundamental)

Now, hold down the "Cntrl" key and hit, still holding down the "Cntrl" key, 
hit the "e' key.  You should now have the cursor at the end of the line

   abc ABC (* 6 7)

Now just start typing.  Say you type

   Oi, I am in Emacs!  The Elisp has me!

Now the top line should read

   abc ABC (* 6 7)Oi, I am in Emacs!  The Elisp has me!

Here is the most second most important command of Emacs:
Hold down the "Cntrl" let, and still holding down the "Cntrl" key,
hit the "x" key, then, again, hold down the "Cntrl" let, and still
holding down the "Cntrl" key, hit the "c" key.  Emacs will now say to
you something like:

   Save file /gibber/EXAMPLES/example? (y, n, !, ., q, C-r, C-f, d or C-h)

Hit the "y" key and Emacs will, gently and courteously, let you go.

If you now do

   cat example

you should see the contents of the file example.  Let me check on my machine:

   guacamole:~/EXAMPLES$ cat example
   abc ABC (* 6 7)Oi, I am in Emacs!  The Elisp has me!
   guacamole:~/EXAMPLES$

So by direct demonstration, we know that Emacs has an avatar, the
avatar "just a text editor".

I now reveal a Great Secret of Emacs:

   Invite a friend who knows Emacs to sit with you, and with Emacs, and
   together learn of the Mysteries.

A small secret of Emacs:

   If you start Emacs like so

   emacs -nw

usually you will be thrown into Emacs and shown a tutorial, which, on
the screen, starts like so:

   File Edit Options Buffers Tools Help
   Warning Warning!!!  Pure space overflow    !!!Warning Warning
   (See the node Pure Storage in the Lisp manual for details.)
   Welcome to GNU Emacs, one component of the GNU/Linux operating system.

   Get help           C-h  (Hold down CTRL and press h)
   Emacs manual       C-h r        Browse manuals     C-h i
   Emacs tutorial     C-h t        Undo changes       C-x u
   Buy manuals        C-h RET      Exit Emacs         C-x C-c
   Activate menubar   M-`
   (‘C-’ means use the CTRL key.  ‘M-’ means use the Meta (or Alt) key.
   If you have no Meta key, you may instead type ESC followed by the character.)
   Useful tasks:
   Visit New File                  Open Home Directory
   Customize Startup               Open *scratch* buffer

   GNU Emacs 27.1 (build 1, i686-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 3.24.30, cairo version 1.16.0)
    of 2021-11-27, modified by Debian
   Copyright (C) 2020 Free Software Foundation, Inc.

   GNU Emacs comes with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY; type C-h C-w for full details.
   Emacs is Free Software--Free as in Freedom--so you can redistribute copies
   of Emacs and modify it; type C-h C-c to see the conditions.
   Type C-h C-o for information on getting the latest version.

   If an Emacs session crashed recently, type M-x recover-session RET
   to recover the files you were editing.










   -UUU:%%--F1  *GNU Emacs*    All L1     (Fundamental) -------------------------------------
   Package cl is deprecated


The tutorial sometimes helps.

Of some importance:

   Pay no attention to any statement by Emacs about
   1. pure space
   2. cl


Gottfried, Heaven forwarding, I will rant^Wexplain more in a bit.

Thanks!

oo--JS.

Re: text editor, ah, just a typo

[Jay Sulzberger]

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Ah, there are several typographical errors in my last.  The most
glaring is the error of my typing

   "Cntrl" let

when I meant

   "Cntrl" key

oo--JS.



On Tue, 22 Feb 2022, Jay Sulzberger wrote:

>
> On Tue, 22 Feb 2022, Gottfried <gottfried@posteo.de> wrote:
>
>> Hi, thanks for Your email.
>
> De nada and you are very welcome!
>
>> I am not sitting the whole day in front of a computer, I am working in a 
>> technical job to help people.
>> 
>> So I didn´t have time to learn any computer language, emacs etc. because I 
>> didn´t need it for my life yet.
>> 
>> Which editor You would propose , I should use, to show which brackets 
>> belong to each other, as you described in your email?
>
> These days, well for some decades, I use Emacs.  I think Emacs can be
> learned bit by bit.  Usually I run Emacs in an X "terminal emulator".
> (Today at home, konsole is the X terminal emulator I use.)  So usually I
> have the terminal with the bash shell running in it.  The below command
>
>  guacamole:~$ mkdir EXAMPLES
>  guacamole:~$ cd EXAMPLES
>  guacamole:~/EXAMPLES$ echo "abc ABC (* 6 7)" >> example
>  guacamole:~/EXAMPLES$ ls -l
>  total 4
>  -rw-r--r-- 1 guaca guaca 16 Feb 22 13:43 example
>  guacamole:~/EXAMPLES$ cat example
>  abc ABC (* 6 7)
>  guacamole:~/EXAMPLES$
>
> So you are now in the directory
>
>  ~/EXAMPLES
>
> If you now issue the command
>
>  emacs -nw example
>
> Emacs starts up and you are thrown into Emacs.  Your screen looks
> something like this (actually no spaces on the left):
>
>  File Edit Options Buffers Tools Help
>  abc ABC (* 6 7)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  -UU-:----F1  example        All L2     (Fundamental)
>
> Now, hold down the "Cntrl" key and hit, still holding down the "Cntrl" key, 
> hit the "e' key.  You should now have the cursor at the end of the line
>
>  abc ABC (* 6 7)
>
> Now just start typing.  Say you type
>
>  Oi, I am in Emacs!  The Elisp has me!
>
> Now the top line should read
>
>  abc ABC (* 6 7)Oi, I am in Emacs!  The Elisp has me!
>
> Here is the most second most important command of Emacs:
> Hold down the "Cntrl" let, and still holding down the "Cntrl" key,
> hit the "x" key, then, again, hold down the "Cntrl" let, and still
> holding down the "Cntrl" key, hit the "c" key.  Emacs will now say to
> you something like:
>
>  Save file /gibber/EXAMPLES/example? (y, n, !, ., q, C-r, C-f, d or C-h)
>
> Hit the "y" key and Emacs will, gently and courteously, let you go.
>
> If you now do
>
>  cat example
>
> you should see the contents of the file example.  Let me check on my machine:
>
>  guacamole:~/EXAMPLES$ cat example
>  abc ABC (* 6 7)Oi, I am in Emacs!  The Elisp has me!
>  guacamole:~/EXAMPLES$
>
> So by direct demonstration, we know that Emacs has an avatar, the
> avatar "just a text editor".
>
> I now reveal a Great Secret of Emacs:
>
>  Invite a friend who knows Emacs to sit with you, and with Emacs, and
>  together learn of the Mysteries.
>
> A small secret of Emacs:
>
>  If you start Emacs like so
>
>  emacs -nw
>
> usually you will be thrown into Emacs and shown a tutorial, which, on
> the screen, starts like so:
>
>  File Edit Options Buffers Tools Help
>  Warning Warning!!!  Pure space overflow    !!!Warning Warning
>  (See the node Pure Storage in the Lisp manual for details.)
>  Welcome to GNU Emacs, one component of the GNU/Linux operating system.
>
>  Get help           C-h  (Hold down CTRL and press h)
>  Emacs manual       C-h r        Browse manuals     C-h i
>  Emacs tutorial     C-h t        Undo changes       C-x u
>  Buy manuals        C-h RET      Exit Emacs         C-x C-c
>  Activate menubar   M-`
>  (‘C-’ means use the CTRL key.  ‘M-’ means use the Meta (or Alt) 
> key.
>  If you have no Meta key, you may instead type ESC followed by the 
> character.)
>  Useful tasks:
>  Visit New File                  Open Home Directory
>  Customize Startup               Open *scratch* buffer
>
>  GNU Emacs 27.1 (build 1, i686-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 3.24.30, cairo 
> version 1.16.0)
>   of 2021-11-27, modified by Debian
>  Copyright (C) 2020 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
>
>  GNU Emacs comes with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY; type C-h C-w for full details.
>  Emacs is Free Software--Free as in Freedom--so you can redistribute copies
>  of Emacs and modify it; type C-h C-c to see the conditions.
>  Type C-h C-o for information on getting the latest version.
>
>  If an Emacs session crashed recently, type M-x recover-session RET
>  to recover the files you were editing.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  -UUU:%%--F1  *GNU Emacs*    All L1     (Fundamental) 
> -------------------------------------
>  Package cl is deprecated
>
>
> The tutorial sometimes helps.
>
> Of some importance:
>
>  Pay no attention to any statement by Emacs about
>  1. pure space
>  2. cl
>
>
> Gottfried, Heaven forwarding, I will rant^Wexplain more in a bit.
>
> Thanks!
>
> oo--JS.
>