From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp1 ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms11 with LMTPS id WDSfCyrbm1/fdQAA0tVLHw (envelope-from ) for ; Fri, 30 Oct 2020 09:21:46 +0000 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp1 with LMTPS id cJ57Byrbm19KPQAAbx9fmQ (envelope-from ) for ; Fri, 30 Oct 2020 09:21:46 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E0F889402A9 for ; Fri, 30 Oct 2020 09:21:44 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost ([::1]:57602 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kYQbP-0001Tb-Ll for larch@yhetil.org; Fri, 30 Oct 2020 05:21:43 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:57896) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kYQYm-0008St-R0 for help-guix@gnu.org; Fri, 30 Oct 2020 05:19:00 -0400 Received: from 3.mo179.mail-out.ovh.net ([178.33.251.175]:52588) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kYQYk-0001FZ-7Z for help-guix@gnu.org; Fri, 30 Oct 2020 05:19:00 -0400 Received: from player687.ha.ovh.net (unknown [10.109.146.1]) by mo179.mail-out.ovh.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id F29ED17C526 for ; Fri, 30 Oct 2020 10:18:54 +0100 (CET) Received: from hubert-lombard.website (lns-bzn-43-82-249-144-126.adsl.proxad.net [82.249.144.126]) (Authenticated sender: contact@hubert-lombard.website) by player687.ha.ovh.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 88EEC17A13C6C; Fri, 30 Oct 2020 09:18:51 +0000 (UTC) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2020 10:18:49 +0100 From: Hubert Lombard To: Miguel =?UTF-8?B?w4FuZ2Vs?= Arruga Vivas Subject: Re: Some (little) problems about contributing to the translation of guix-manual Message-ID: <20201030101849.24942621@hubert-lombard.website> In-Reply-To: <87361w7g59.fsf@gmail.com> References: <20201026200750.01660142@hubert-lombard.website> <873620psxg.fsf@gmail.com> <20201027093823.24f1c25c@hubert-lombard.website> <87a6w7o3qq.fsf@gmail.com> <20201028162802.1385a886@hubert-lombard.website> <20201029193258.590f29bf@hubert-lombard.website> <90692B35-81AA-4C5A-AA02-77ADB68E54CB@lepiller.eu> <20201029222122.7c464a44@hubert-lombard.website> <87361w7g59.fsf@gmail.com> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.17.8 (GTK+ 2.24.32; x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Ovh-Tracer-Id: 15744021348814939612 X-VR-SPAMSTATE: OK X-VR-SPAMSCORE: -100 X-VR-SPAMCAUSE: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedujedrleehgddtudcutefuodetggdotefrodftvfcurfhrohhfihhlvgemucfqggfjpdevjffgvefmvefgnecuuegrihhlohhuthemucehtddtnecusecvtfgvtghiphhivghnthhsucdlqddutddtmdenucfjughrpeffhffvuffkjghfofggtgfgsehtqheftdertdejnecuhfhrohhmpefjuhgsvghrthcunfhomhgsrghrugcuoegtohhnthgrtghtsehhuhgsvghrthdqlhhomhgsrghrugdrfigvsghsihhtvgeqnecuggftrfgrthhtvghrnhepgfekudegleeuvdehhfevieeileeutdehtdehkedthfektefhffeiveekvdehiedtnecuffhomhgrihhnpehgnhhurdhorhhgnecukfhppedtrddtrddtrddtpdekvddrvdegledrudeggedruddvieenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhhouggvpehsmhhtphdqohhuthdphhgvlhhopehplhgrhigvrheikeejrdhhrgdrohhvhhdrnhgvthdpihhnvghtpedtrddtrddtrddtpdhmrghilhhfrhhomheptghonhhtrggttheshhhusggvrhhtqdhlohhmsggrrhgurdifvggsshhithgvpdhrtghpthhtohephhgvlhhpqdhguhhigiesghhnuhdrohhrgh Received-SPF: pass client-ip=178.33.251.175; envelope-from=contact@hubert-lombard.website; helo=3.mo179.mail-out.ovh.net X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/10/30 05:18:55 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 3.11 and newer X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: help-guix@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: help-guix@gnu.org Errors-To: help-guix-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Help-Guix" X-Scanner: scn0 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of help-guix-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=help-guix-bounces@gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -1.01 X-TUID: qQtXZ50ZETei Hi, Miguel and help-guix! Le Fri, 30 Oct 2020 00:42:58 +0100, Miguel =C3=81ngel Arruga Vivas a =C3=A9crit : > Hi! >=20 > Hubert Lombard writes: > > Hi, Julien and help-guix :-) > > > > Le Thu, 29 Oct 2020 15:17:44 -0400, > > Julien Lepiller a =C3=A9crit : =20 > [...] > >> Actually, I just had a look at the file you created. There are > >> multiple issues with it. Remember that the text is in texinfo > >> format, so anything of the form @command{content} is a texinfo > >> command. If you translate it, it might have unexpected effects > >> (not able to compile, =E2=80=A6). =20 > [...] > > (while Poedit told me that there were no errors in the translation > > :-) =20 >=20 > It's possible that poedit uses msgfmt underneath to check the > translation, so it only will warn you you about newlines at the end of > the string when the original doesn't have it and things like that, but > unfortunately not about the texinfo syntax. And about the tags: >=20 > - @example/@lisp: Its a code fragment used to show something to the > reader. The comments usually should be translated, even though some > words may reference API or other code names outside the example, so > it can be tricky. Usually the code can be "adapted" in varying > degree; sometimes you can translate almost everything and only the > keywords of the language stay the same keeping the same semantics, > but lots of times you cannot change almost any letter as everything > are API identifiers and changing it would modify the semantics of the > example. >=20 > - @var: It indicates a reference to something that can be > provided/modified by the end-user, and usually its content can be > translated, always matching the translation used in all its > references, and, maybe some @example/@lisp code it references. >=20 > - @code, @command, @env, @file and @option: They indicate text with > some kind of meaning to the computer, either API identifiers or code > fragments (@code), commands that could be executed (@command), > environment variables (@env), file references (@file) or options for > the executable(s) that the manual is written for (@option). Its > contents shouldn't be translated, unless they really refer to an > example that has already been adapted to the language. >=20 > - @indicateurl, @ref, @xref and @pxref: They indicate links to other > documents (@indicateurl), or to other sections of the manual itself > (@?*ref). These are the trickiest from my point of view. As Julien > explained, these identifiers are changed automatically during the > manual translation generation, but not all parameters (think of them > as function calls) are really the same. The first one shouldn't be > translated, and usually it's the only one, neither the external > references (the ones with 5 parameters) as there is no translation > for most of GNU manuals. Only the second and third parameters when > they are the last ones should be translated. The tag @indicateurl > also has this semantics. As an example from my translation, the > original text >=20 > "@pxref{fallback-option,, common build option @option{--fallback}}" >=20 > Translates to this in spanish: >=20 > "@pxref{fallback-option,, opci=C3=B3n com=C3=BAn de construcci=C3=B3n > @option{--fallback}}" >=20 > I think these should be the most common ones, at least the ones from > the top of my head. >=20 > Or, like the manual could say: @xref{Top,,, texinfo, GNU Texinfo} or > @indicateurl{https://www.gnu.org/software/texinfo/manual/texinfo/texinfo.= html}, > for more information about these tags. ;-) These explanations are going to be very useful, I copied them in my persona= l documentation. in order to be able to study them in more detail later :-) =20 > [...] > >> If you're not working on that file right now, I can take care of > >> fixing these issues and give you control over the file again > >> tomorrow morning. =20 >=20 > I have to say thank you too, even though I'm not a French user, > because these are the things make this community really great. :-) Yes, by the way, Julien has fixed the problems since yesterday and made the= .po valid! I hope to be able to meet you all soon at an event ;-) > > It's very nice of you, I'd like you to take care of it if you > > can. Tomorrow morning, I will study carefully what you will have > > done. Really, thank you Julien! > > > > I also read your answers on git clone, I'll take good note of them > > too ;) =20 >=20 > Tomorrow I'll be available some time on IRC too, usually by the > initial letters of my name. You can check on the channel too if you > have any doubt or issue. >=20 > > Well, I'm going to go rest a little bit! > > =20 > >> Thanks! =20 > > > > Thanks to you! =20 >=20 > Good night, and thanks to you, both, again! :-) >=20 > And just one comment from an older mail: >=20 > Hubert Lombard writes: > > On Tue, 27 Oct 2020 20:42:05 +0100 > > Miguel =C3=81ngel Arruga Vivas wrote: =20 > >> I'm sure you'll advance more, just wanted to ensure. :-) =20 > > > > Yes, I can advance enough for now, at the end of this day, I hope to > > have 88% or more translated. Don't worry for your "I'm sure", I had > > understood ;-) =20 >=20 > Sorry, and thanks for your understanding. I was trying to write > something to encourage you somehow, but I left it to the end as I > didn't find the words... and I sent it by mistake. :-( Don't worry, I also feel the fervor in which you are involved and your answ= ers on the translation and git clone were very helpful to me. I will be able to take some time to assimilate all this... See you soon --=20 Hubert