Posts in languages other than English on help-guix?

Posts in languages other than English on help-guix?

[Ludovic Courtès]

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Hello Guix!

What about allowing posts on help-guix in one of the languages that
regular contributors know, in addition to English?

The alternative would be to create separate language-specific lists, but
some (rightfully) think there’s a risk of a disconnect with actual
developers.

Of course it’s hard to tell what a multilingual mailing list will be
like, but I think it’s worth experimenting (and I don’t expect a
significant change overnight).  If we are to reach out to more people,
allowing them to use the language they know best is the minimum we can
do IMO.

WDYT?

To experiment with this on help-guix, I propose the patch below for the
web site.  If you’re a committer, please provide a translation for the
language(s) you know!

Ludo’.


[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/x-patch, Size: 3932 bytes --]

diff --git a/website/apps/base/data.scm b/website/apps/base/data.scm
index 0abcc7a..4ccca9a 100644
--- a/website/apps/base/data.scm
+++ b/website/apps/base/data.scm
@@ -13,7 +13,6 @@
 ;;; Data.
 ;;;
 
-
 (define contact-media
   (list
    ;; The first three will be featured in the home page.
@@ -30,12 +29,18 @@
    (contact
     #:name "Help Mailing List"
     #:description
-    '(p
-      "Subscribe to the Help mailing list to get support from the
-      GuixSD and GNU Guix community via email. "
-      (a (@ (href "https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guix-devel/2015-12/msg00584.html"))
-	 "Until December 2015")
-      ", the Guix-devel mailing list filled that role.")
+    `(("en"
+       "Subscribe to the Help mailing list to get support from the GuixSD
+and GNU Guix community via email.  You can post messages in English though we
+also accept other languages.")
+      ("eo"
+       "Subskribu al la retmesaĝolisto \"Help\" por demandi helpon pri
+GuixSD kaj GNU Guix al la grupo.  Vi povas skribi esperantlingve.")
+      ("fr"
+       "Abonnez-vous à la liste de diffusion « Help » pour obtenir l'aide
+de la communauté sur GuixSD et GNU Guix par courrier électronique.  Vous
+pouvez envoyer des messages en Français."))
+
     #:url "https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/help-guix"
     #:log "https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/help-guix")
 
diff --git a/website/apps/base/templates/components.scm b/website/apps/base/templates/components.scm
index b329c71..04d3a08 100644
--- a/website/apps/base/templates/components.scm
+++ b/website/apps/base/templates/components.scm
@@ -13,6 +13,7 @@
   #:use-module (apps base types)
   #:use-module (apps base utils)
   #:use-module (srfi srfi-1)
+  #:use-module (ice-9 match)
   #:export (breadcrumbs
 	    button-big
 	    button-little
@@ -121,6 +122,11 @@
      "…")))
 
 
+(define (language-tag lang)
+  `(span (@ (class "button-little button-little-active")
+            (style "float: left; text-align: center; width: 20px; vertical-align: middle"))
+         ,lang))
+
 (define (contact->shtml contact)
   "Return an SHTML representation of the given contact object.
 
@@ -133,7 +139,18 @@
 	 ""
 	 `(small
 	   " (" (a (@ (href ,(contact-log contact))) "archive") ") "))
-    ,(contact-description contact)))
+
+    ;; The description can be a list of language/blurb pairs.
+    ,(match (contact-description contact)
+       ((((? string? languages) blurbs) ...)
+        `(p ,@(map (lambda (language blurb)
+                     `(div (@ (style "margin: 0 10px 10px 0"))
+                           ,(language-tag language)
+                           (div ,blurb)))
+                   languages
+                   blurbs)))
+       (blurb
+        blurb))))
 
 
 (define* (horizontal-separator #:key (light #false))
diff --git a/website/apps/base/templates/contact.scm b/website/apps/base/templates/contact.scm
index 16e4b4e..c246d4b 100644
--- a/website/apps/base/templates/contact.scm
+++ b/website/apps/base/templates/contact.scm
@@ -23,7 +23,8 @@
      "Community" "Mailing lists" "IRC channels" "Bug reports" "Help")
    #:active-menu-item "About"
    #:css (list
-	  (guix-url "static/base/css/page.css"))
+	  (guix-url "static/base/css/page.css")
+          (guix-url "static/base/css/buttons.css"))
    #:crumbs (list (crumb "Contact" "./"))
    #:content
    `(main
diff --git a/website/static/base/css/buttons.css b/website/static/base/css/buttons.css
index 9e45190..feabcea 100644
--- a/website/static/base/css/buttons.css
+++ b/website/static/base/css/buttons.css
@@ -37,6 +37,7 @@
 }
 
 
+.button-little,
 .button-little:link,
 .button-little:visited {
     border-color: #C0C0C0;
@@ -58,4 +59,4 @@
 .button-little:hover {
     background-color: #FFCC00;
     border-color: #D4AA00;
-}
\ No newline at end of file
+}

Re: Posts in languages other than English on help-guix?

[ng0]

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Ludovic Courtès transcribed 4.8K bytes:
> Hello Guix!
> 
> What about allowing posts on help-guix in one of the languages that
> regular contributors know, in addition to English?
> 
> The alternative would be to create separate language-specific lists, but
> some (rightfully) think there’s a risk of a disconnect with actual
> developers.
> 
> Of course it’s hard to tell what a multilingual mailing list will be
> like, but I think it’s worth experimenting (and I don’t expect a
> significant change overnight).  If we are to reach out to more people,
> allowing them to use the language they know best is the minimum we can
> do IMO.
> 
> WDYT?
> 
> To experiment with this on help-guix, I propose the patch below for the
> web site.  If you’re a committer, please provide a translation for the
> language(s) you know!

Oh... does this mean the translation function for the website is now in place?
It looks like it is from the patch content, or am I wrong?

On topic: I think it's too much to suggest to include something that indicates
the language of the post in the subject?

> Ludo’.
> 

> diff --git a/website/apps/base/data.scm b/website/apps/base/data.scm
> index 0abcc7a..4ccca9a 100644
> --- a/website/apps/base/data.scm
> +++ b/website/apps/base/data.scm
> @@ -13,7 +13,6 @@
>  ;;; Data.
>  ;;;
>  
> -
>  (define contact-media
>    (list
>     ;; The first three will be featured in the home page.
> @@ -30,12 +29,18 @@
>     (contact
>      #:name "Help Mailing List"
>      #:description
> -    '(p
> -      "Subscribe to the Help mailing list to get support from the
> -      GuixSD and GNU Guix community via email. "
> -      (a (@ (href "https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guix-devel/2015-12/msg00584.html"))
> -	 "Until December 2015")
> -      ", the Guix-devel mailing list filled that role.")
> +    `(("en"
> +       "Subscribe to the Help mailing list to get support from the GuixSD
> +and GNU Guix community via email.  You can post messages in English though we
> +also accept other languages.")
> +      ("eo"
> +       "Subskribu al la retmesaĝolisto \"Help\" por demandi helpon pri
> +GuixSD kaj GNU Guix al la grupo.  Vi povas skribi esperantlingve.")
> +      ("fr"
> +       "Abonnez-vous à la liste de diffusion « Help » pour obtenir l'aide
> +de la communauté sur GuixSD et GNU Guix par courrier électronique.  Vous
> +pouvez envoyer des messages en Français."))
> +
>      #:url "https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/help-guix"
>      #:log "https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/help-guix")
>  
> diff --git a/website/apps/base/templates/components.scm b/website/apps/base/templates/components.scm
> index b329c71..04d3a08 100644
> --- a/website/apps/base/templates/components.scm
> +++ b/website/apps/base/templates/components.scm
> @@ -13,6 +13,7 @@
>    #:use-module (apps base types)
>    #:use-module (apps base utils)
>    #:use-module (srfi srfi-1)
> +  #:use-module (ice-9 match)
>    #:export (breadcrumbs
>  	    button-big
>  	    button-little
> @@ -121,6 +122,11 @@
>       "…")))
>  
>  
> +(define (language-tag lang)
> +  `(span (@ (class "button-little button-little-active")
> +            (style "float: left; text-align: center; width: 20px; vertical-align: middle"))
> +         ,lang))
> +
>  (define (contact->shtml contact)
>    "Return an SHTML representation of the given contact object.
>  
> @@ -133,7 +139,18 @@
>  	 ""
>  	 `(small
>  	   " (" (a (@ (href ,(contact-log contact))) "archive") ") "))
> -    ,(contact-description contact)))
> +
> +    ;; The description can be a list of language/blurb pairs.
> +    ,(match (contact-description contact)
> +       ((((? string? languages) blurbs) ...)
> +        `(p ,@(map (lambda (language blurb)
> +                     `(div (@ (style "margin: 0 10px 10px 0"))
> +                           ,(language-tag language)
> +                           (div ,blurb)))
> +                   languages
> +                   blurbs)))
> +       (blurb
> +        blurb))))
>  
>  
>  (define* (horizontal-separator #:key (light #false))
> diff --git a/website/apps/base/templates/contact.scm b/website/apps/base/templates/contact.scm
> index 16e4b4e..c246d4b 100644
> --- a/website/apps/base/templates/contact.scm
> +++ b/website/apps/base/templates/contact.scm
> @@ -23,7 +23,8 @@
>       "Community" "Mailing lists" "IRC channels" "Bug reports" "Help")
>     #:active-menu-item "About"
>     #:css (list
> -	  (guix-url "static/base/css/page.css"))
> +	  (guix-url "static/base/css/page.css")
> +          (guix-url "static/base/css/buttons.css"))
>     #:crumbs (list (crumb "Contact" "./"))
>     #:content
>     `(main
> diff --git a/website/static/base/css/buttons.css b/website/static/base/css/buttons.css
> index 9e45190..feabcea 100644
> --- a/website/static/base/css/buttons.css
> +++ b/website/static/base/css/buttons.css
> @@ -37,6 +37,7 @@
>  }
>  
>  
> +.button-little,
>  .button-little:link,
>  .button-little:visited {
>      border-color: #C0C0C0;
> @@ -58,4 +59,4 @@
>  .button-little:hover {
>      background-color: #FFCC00;
>      border-color: #D4AA00;
> -}
> \ No newline at end of file
> +}


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Re: Posts in languages other than English on help-guix?

[Andreas Enge]

Hello!

On Fri, Mar 02, 2018 at 05:02:40PM +0100, Ludovic Courtès wrote:
> What about allowing posts on help-guix in one of the languages that
> regular contributors know, in addition to English?

That sounds like a good idea. However, in the text, I would still say that
English is the preferred language, or the language in which one is most
likely to get a useful reply.

> The alternative would be to create separate language-specific lists, but
> some (rightfully) think there’s a risk of a disconnect with actual
> developers.

Indeed, unless we get a lot of multilingual traffic, at which point we can
still create separate lists.

> +       "Subscribe to the Help mailing list to get support from the GuixSD
> +and GNU Guix community via email.  You can post messages in English though we
> +also accept other languages.")
> +      ("eo"
> +       "Subskribu al la retmesaĝolisto \"Help\" por demandi helpon pri
> +GuixSD kaj GNU Guix al la grupo.  Vi povas skribi esperantlingve.")
> +      ("fr"
> +       "Abonnez-vous à la liste de diffusion « Help » pour obtenir l'aide
> +de la communauté sur GuixSD et GNU Guix par courrier électronique.  Vous
> +pouvez envoyer des messages en Français."))

("de"
 "Melden Sie sich bei der „Help“-Mailingliste an, um per E-Mail Hilfe von anderen
GuixSD- und Guix-Nutzern zu bekommen.  Sie können Nachrichten auch auf deutsch
schicken.")

(Zur Frage, ob es "auf deutsch" oder "auf Deutsch" heißt, siehe
   http://www.belleslettres.eu/content/rechtschreibung/auf-deutsch-rechtschreibung.php .)

Andreas

Re: Posts in languages other than English on help-guix?

[Andreas Enge]

On Fri, Mar 02, 2018 at 04:47:45PM +0000, ng0 wrote:
> On topic: I think it's too much to suggest to include something that indicates
> the language of the post in the subject?

I think people will easily recognise languages they speak in a post!

Andreas

Re: Posts in languages other than English on help-guix?

[Catonano]

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2018-03-02 21:07 GMT+01:00 Andreas Enge <andreas@enge.fr>:

> On Fri, Mar 02, 2018 at 04:47:45PM +0000, ng0 wrote:
> > On topic: I think it's too much to suggest to include something that
> indicates
> > the language of the post in the subject?
>
> I think people will easily recognise languages they speak in a post!
>
> Andreas
>

I'd still put a mark for the langage used, you never know, you might want
to process messages with automated tools

Or you may have to deal with extravagant people

I agree in allowing the usage of langages other than English

I will keep using English, for myself

I might reply to a question written in Italian, though

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Re: Posts in languages other than English on help-guix?

[ng0]

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Andreas Enge transcribed 1.6K bytes:
> Hello!
> 
> On Fri, Mar 02, 2018 at 05:02:40PM +0100, Ludovic Courtès wrote:
> > What about allowing posts on help-guix in one of the languages that
> > regular contributors know, in addition to English?
> 
> That sounds like a good idea. However, in the text, I would still say that
> English is the preferred language, or the language in which one is most
> likely to get a useful reply.
> 
> > The alternative would be to create separate language-specific lists, but
> > some (rightfully) think there’s a risk of a disconnect with actual
> > developers.
> 
> Indeed, unless we get a lot of multilingual traffic, at which point we can
> still create separate lists.
> 
> > +       "Subscribe to the Help mailing list to get support from the GuixSD
> > +and GNU Guix community via email.  You can post messages in English though we
> > +also accept other languages.")
> > +      ("eo"
> > +       "Subskribu al la retmesaĝolisto \"Help\" por demandi helpon pri
> > +GuixSD kaj GNU Guix al la grupo.  Vi povas skribi esperantlingve.")
> > +      ("fr"
> > +       "Abonnez-vous à la liste de diffusion « Help » pour obtenir l'aide
> > +de la communauté sur GuixSD et GNU Guix par courrier électronique.  Vous
> > +pouvez envoyer des messages en Français."))
> 
> ("de"
>  "Melden Sie sich bei der „Help“-Mailingliste an, um per E-Mail Hilfe von anderen
> GuixSD- und Guix-Nutzern zu bekommen.  Sie können Nachrichten auch auf deutsch
> schicken.")

To not pick the generischer Maskulinum (which would be contrary the rest of our
Documentation guidelines), I'd write:

 ("de"
  "Melden Sie sich bei der „Help“-Mailingliste an, um per E-Mail Hilfe von anderen
 GuixSD- und Guix-Nutzer:innen zu bekommen.  Sie können Nachrichten auch auf deutsch
 schicken.")

> (Zur Frage, ob es "auf deutsch" oder "auf Deutsch" heißt, siehe
>    http://www.belleslettres.eu/content/rechtschreibung/auf-deutsch-rechtschreibung.php .)
>
> Andreas
> 
> 
> 

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Re: Posts in languages other than English on help-guix?

[Gábor Boskovits]

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2018-03-02 21:03 GMT+01:00 Andreas Enge <andreas@enge.fr>:

> Hello!
>
> On Fri, Mar 02, 2018 at 05:02:40PM +0100, Ludovic Courtès wrote:
> > What about allowing posts on help-guix in one of the languages that
> > regular contributors know, in addition to English?
>
> That sounds like a good idea. However, in the text, I would still say that
> English is the preferred language, or the language in which one is most
> likely to get a useful reply.
>
> > The alternative would be to create separate language-specific lists, but
> > some (rightfully) think there’s a risk of a disconnect with actual
> > developers.
>
> Indeed, unless we get a lot of multilingual traffic, at which point we can
> still create separate lists.
>
> > +       "Subscribe to the Help mailing list to get support from the
> GuixSD
> > +and GNU Guix community via email.  You can post messages in English
> though we
> > +also accept other languages.")
> > +      ("eo"
> > +       "Subskribu al la retmesaĝolisto \"Help\" por demandi helpon pri
> > +GuixSD kaj GNU Guix al la grupo.  Vi povas skribi esperantlingve.")
> > +      ("fr"
> > +       "Abonnez-vous à la liste de diffusion « Help » pour obtenir
> l'aide
> > +de la communauté sur GuixSD et GNU Guix par courrier électronique.  Vous
> > +pouvez envoyer des messages en Français."))
>
> ("de"
>  "Melden Sie sich bei der „Help“-Mailingliste an, um per E-Mail Hilfe von
> anderen
> GuixSD- und Guix-Nutzern zu bekommen.  Sie können Nachrichten auch auf
> deutsch
> schicken.")
>
(Zur Frage, ob es "auf deutsch" oder "auf Deutsch" heißt, siehe
>    http://www.belleslettres.eu/content/rechtschreibung/auf-
> deutsch-rechtschreibung.php .)
>
> Andreas
>
>
>
("hu"
 "Iratkozzon fel a „Help“ levelezőlistára, hogy segítséget kaphasson
e-mailben a GuixSD
és a GNU Guix közösségtől. Magyarul is küldhet üzeneteket.")

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Re: Posts in languages other than English on help-guix?

[Ludovic Courtès]

Andreas Enge <andreas@enge.fr> skribis:

> On Fri, Mar 02, 2018 at 05:02:40PM +0100, Ludovic Courtès wrote:
>> What about allowing posts on help-guix in one of the languages that
>> regular contributors know, in addition to English?
>
> That sounds like a good idea. However, in the text, I would still say that
> English is the preferred language, or the language in which one is most
> likely to get a useful reply.

For help-guix I’d be willing to not explicitly state it.

>> The alternative would be to create separate language-specific lists, but
>> some (rightfully) think there’s a risk of a disconnect with actual
>> developers.
>
> Indeed, unless we get a lot of multilingual traffic, at which point we can
> still create separate lists.

Exactly, time will tell!  I think the initial challenge will be to get
non-English posts at all.

>> +       "Subscribe to the Help mailing list to get support from the GuixSD
>> +and GNU Guix community via email.  You can post messages in English though we
>> +also accept other languages.")
>> +      ("eo"
>> +       "Subskribu al la retmesaĝolisto \"Help\" por demandi helpon pri
>> +GuixSD kaj GNU Guix al la grupo.  Vi povas skribi esperantlingve.")
>> +      ("fr"
>> +       "Abonnez-vous à la liste de diffusion « Help » pour obtenir l'aide
>> +de la communauté sur GuixSD et GNU Guix par courrier électronique.  Vous
>> +pouvez envoyer des messages en Français."))
>
> ("de"
>  "Melden Sie sich bei der „Help“-Mailingliste an, um per E-Mail Hilfe von anderen
> GuixSD- und Guix-Nutzern zu bekommen.  Sie können Nachrichten auch auf deutsch
> schicken.")

Danke!

Ludo’.

Re: Posts in languages other than English on help-guix?

[Ludovic Courtès]

Gábor Boskovits <boskovits@gmail.com> skribis:

> ("hu"
>  "Iratkozzon fel a „Help“ levelezőlistára, hogy segítséget kaphasson
> e-mailben a GuixSD
> és a GNU Guix közösségtől. Magyarul is küldhet üzeneteket.")

Thanks!

Ludo’.

Re: Posts in languages other than English on help-guix?

[Andreas Enge]

On Fri, Mar 02, 2018 at 08:31:36PM +0000, ng0 wrote:
> To not pick the generischer Maskulinum (which would be contrary the rest of our
> Documentation guidelines)

Indeed, it is difficult to write grammatically and syntactically correct,
pleasant to read, gender neutral German! I am not a fan of these strange new
constructions that encapsulate both the male and female form into one word
with the help of interpunctuation in the middle of the word.

So here is a new trial, translating more freely, and hopefully satisfying
all requirements:

("de"
 "Melden Sie sich bei der „Help“-Mailingliste an, um per E-Mail
gemeinschaftlichen Rat zu GuixSD und Guix zu bekommen.  Sie können
Nachrichten auch auf deutsch verfassen.")

What do you think?

Andreas

Re: Posts in languages other than English on help-guix?

[Clément Lassieur]

Ludovic Courtès <ludo@gnu.org> writes:

> +      ("fr"
> +       "Abonnez-vous à la liste de diffusion «Help» pour obtenir l'aide
> +de la communauté sur GuixSD et GNUGuix par courrier électronique.  Vous
> +pouvez envoyer des messages en Français."))

                               en français

Merci !
Clément

Re: Posts in languages other than English on help-guix?

[ng0]

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Andreas Enge transcribed 785 bytes:
> On Fri, Mar 02, 2018 at 08:31:36PM +0000, ng0 wrote:
> > To not pick the generischer Maskulinum (which would be contrary the rest of our
> > Documentation guidelines)
> 
> Indeed, it is difficult to write grammatically and syntactically correct,
> pleasant to read, gender neutral German! I am not a fan of these strange new
> constructions that encapsulate both the male and female form into one word
> with the help of interpunctuation in the middle of the word.
> 
> So here is a new trial, translating more freely, and hopefully satisfying
> all requirements:
> 
> ("de"
>  "Melden Sie sich bei der „Help“-Mailingliste an, um per E-Mail
> gemeinschaftlichen Rat zu GuixSD und Guix zu bekommen.  Sie können
> Nachrichten auch auf deutsch verfassen.")
> 
> What do you think?

Heh. It sounds weird (see my reply to your last offlist message), but it works.

> Andreas
> 
> 
> 

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Re: Posts in languages other than English on help-guix?

[Hartmut Goebel]

Am 02.03.2018 um 21:31 schrieb ng0:
> To not pick the generischer Maskulinum (which would be contrary the rest of our
> Documentation guidelines), I'd write:
>
>  ("de"
>   "Melden Sie sich bei der „Help“-Mailingliste an, um per E-Mail Hilfe von anderen
>  GuixSD- und Guix-Nutzer:innen zu bekommen.  Sie können Nachrichten auch auf deutsch
>  schicken.")

+1 @Ludo: Please use this genter-neutral translation. Thanks.

(One could argue whether the gender-gap should be a star, underscore, colon or a full-stop. I'm used to a full stop, but this is secondary.)

-- 
Regards
Hartmut Goebel

| Hartmut Goebel          | h.goebel@crazy-compilers.com               |
| www.crazy-compilers.com | compilers which you thought are impossible |

Re: Posts in languages other than English on help-guix?

[Hartmut Goebel]

Am 03.03.2018 um 11:45 schrieb Hartmut Goebel:
> +1 @Ludo: Please use this genter-neutral translation. Thanks.

@Ludo Correction: I've just seen Andreas' translation from 2018-03-03
11:00, which is okay, too. That one works around the gender-issue be
translating more freely and should be preferred IMHO, since it is less
arguable.


-- 
Regards
Hartmut Goebel

| Hartmut Goebel          | h.goebel@crazy-compilers.com               |
| www.crazy-compilers.com | compilers which you thought are impossible |

Re: Posts in languages other than English on help-guix?

[Catonano]

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2018-03-02 17:47 GMT+01:00 ng0 <ng0@n0.is>:

> Ludovic Courtès transcribed 4.8K bytes:
> > Hello Guix!
> >
> > What about allowing posts on help-guix in one of the languages that
> > regular contributors know, in addition to English?
> >
> > The alternative would be to create separate language-specific lists, but
> > some (rightfully) think there’s a risk of a disconnect with actual
> > developers.
> >
> > Of course it’s hard to tell what a multilingual mailing list will be
> > like, but I think it’s worth experimenting (and I don’t expect a
> > significant change overnight).  If we are to reach out to more people,
> > allowing them to use the language they know best is the minimum we can
> > do IMO.
> >
> > WDYT?
> >
> > To experiment with this on help-guix, I propose the patch below for the
> > web site.  If you’re a committer, please provide a translation for the
> > language(s) you know!
>
> Oh... does this mean the translation function for the website is now in
> place?
> It looks like it is from the patch content, or am I wrong?
>
> On topic: I think it's too much to suggest to include something that
> indicates
> the language of the post in the subject?
>
> > Ludo’.
> >
>
> > diff --git a/website/apps/base/data.scm b/website/apps/base/data.scm
> > index 0abcc7a..4ccca9a 100644
> > --- a/website/apps/base/data.scm
> > +++ b/website/apps/base/data.scm
> > @@ -13,7 +13,6 @@
> >  ;;; Data.
> >  ;;;
> >
> > -
> >  (define contact-media
> >    (list
> >     ;; The first three will be featured in the home page.
> > @@ -30,12 +29,18 @@
> >     (contact
> >      #:name "Help Mailing List"
> >      #:description
> > -    '(p
> > -      "Subscribe to the Help mailing list to get support from the
> > -      GuixSD and GNU Guix community via email. "
> > -      (a (@ (href "https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guix-devel/2015-
> 12/msg00584.html"))
> > -      "Until December 2015")
> > -      ", the Guix-devel mailing list filled that role.")
> > +    `(("en"
> > +       "Subscribe to the Help mailing list to get support from the
> GuixSD
> > +and GNU Guix community via email.  You can post messages in English
> though we
> > +also accept other languages.")
>

("it"
  "Iscrivetevi alla mailing list 'Help' per essere aiutati da altri utenti
di Guix e GuixSD.
Potete scrivere sulla mailing list anche in italiano ")



> >
>

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Re: Posts in languages other than English on help-guix?

[Konrad Hinsen]

On 03/03/2018 11:52, Hartmut Goebel wrote:
> Am 03.03.2018 um 11:45 schrieb Hartmut Goebel:
>> +1 @Ludo: Please use this genter-neutral translation. Thanks.
> 
> @Ludo Correction: I've just seen Andreas' translation from 2018-03-03
> 11:00, which is okay, too. That one works around the gender-issue be
> translating more freely and should be preferred IMHO, since it is less
> arguable.

+1

Avoiding a problem is always better than solving it.

Konrad (left Germany 25 years ago, so not quite up-to-date with latest 
language fashion)

Re: Posts in languages other than English on help-guix?

[Marco van Hulten]

Ludovic—

Je  2 mrt 17:02 skribis Ludovic:
> What about allowing posts on help-guix in one of the languages that
> regular contributors know, in addition to English?
> [...]

I like the idea.

> To experiment with this on help-guix, I propose the patch below for the
> web site.  If you’re a committer, please provide a translation for the
> language(s) you know!

     ("nl"
      "Abonneer je op de discussielijst \"Help\" om hulp te vragen
van de GuixSD- en GNU Guix-gemeenschap.  Je kunt berichten sturen in
het Nederlands.")
     ("nb"
      "Abonner på diskusjonlisten «Help» for å få hjelp om GuixSD og
GNU Guix via e-post.  Du kan legge inn meldinger på norsk.")

—Marco

Re: Posts in languages other than English on help-guix?

[Ricardo Wurmus]

Andreas Enge <andreas@enge.fr> writes:

> On Fri, Mar 02, 2018 at 08:31:36PM +0000, ng0 wrote:
>> To not pick the generischer Maskulinum (which would be contrary the rest of our
>> Documentation guidelines)
>
> Indeed, it is difficult to write grammatically and syntactically correct,
> pleasant to read, gender neutral German! I am not a fan of these strange new
> constructions that encapsulate both the male and female form into one word
> with the help of interpunctuation in the middle of the word.
>
> So here is a new trial, translating more freely, and hopefully satisfying
> all requirements:
>
> ("de"
>  "Melden Sie sich bei der „Help“-Mailingliste an, um per E-Mail
> gemeinschaftlichen Rat zu GuixSD und Guix zu bekommen.  Sie können
> Nachrichten auch auf deutsch verfassen.")
>
> What do you think?

This looks very good to me!  Thanks.

-- 
Ricardo

Re: Posts in languages other than English on help-guix?

[Leo Famulari]

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On Fri, Mar 02, 2018 at 05:02:40PM +0100, Ludovic Courtès wrote:
> What about allowing posts on help-guix in one of the languages that
> regular contributors know, in addition to English?

I didn't realize other languages were not allowed. Sounds good to me!

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Re: Posts in languages other than English on help-guix?

[Marius Bakke]

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Marco van Hulten <marco@hulten.org> writes:

>      ("nb"
>       "Abonner på diskusjonlisten «Help» for å få hjelp om GuixSD og
> GNU Guix via e-post.  Du kan legge inn meldinger på norsk.")

Takk!  I think "diskusjonliste" should be "diskusjonsliste" as
"diskusjon" is used in a passive infinite form (though good resources
regarding this online was surprisingly difficult to come by).

"om" is also not the best preposition here, but I wonder if it's better
to avoid "hjelp" altogether:

      ("nb"
       "Meld deg på diskusjonslisten «Help» for å få råd og tips fra
andre GuixSD- og GNU Guix-brukere via e-post.  Du kan legge inn
meldinger på norsk.")

"Råd" here is used as a kind of advice that is "sought for", implying
support.  Tips is..well, general advice.  WDYT?

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Re: Posts in languages other than English on help-guix?

[Alex Vong]

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Hello,

This is the traditional Chinese version:

  訂閱「Help」郵件群組以電郵從GuixSD及GNU Guix社群取得支援。你可以使用正體、繁體中文發送訊息。

The locale should be zh_TW (for Taiwan), zh_HK (for Hong Kong) and zh_mo
(for Macau). Should I use a let to avoid duplication?

Cheers,
Alex

ludo@gnu.org (Ludovic Courtès) writes:

> Hello Guix!
>
> What about allowing posts on help-guix in one of the languages that
> regular contributors know, in addition to English?
>
> The alternative would be to create separate language-specific lists, but
> some (rightfully) think there’s a risk of a disconnect with actual
> developers.
>
> Of course it’s hard to tell what a multilingual mailing list will be
> like, but I think it’s worth experimenting (and I don’t expect a
> significant change overnight).  If we are to reach out to more people,
> allowing them to use the language they know best is the minimum we can
> do IMO.
>
> WDYT?
>
> To experiment with this on help-guix, I propose the patch below for the
> web site.  If you’re a committer, please provide a translation for the
> language(s) you know!
>
> Ludo’.
>
> diff --git a/website/apps/base/data.scm b/website/apps/base/data.scm
> index 0abcc7a..4ccca9a 100644
> --- a/website/apps/base/data.scm
> +++ b/website/apps/base/data.scm
> @@ -13,7 +13,6 @@
>  ;;; Data.
>  ;;;
>  
> -
>  (define contact-media
>    (list
>     ;; The first three will be featured in the home page.
> @@ -30,12 +29,18 @@
>     (contact
>      #:name "Help Mailing List"
>      #:description
> -    '(p
> -      "Subscribe to the Help mailing list to get support from the
> -      GuixSD and GNU Guix community via email. "
> -      (a (@ (href "https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guix-devel/2015-12/msg00584.html"))
> -	 "Until December 2015")
> -      ", the Guix-devel mailing list filled that role.")
> +    `(("en"
> +       "Subscribe to the Help mailing list to get support from the GuixSD
> +and GNU Guix community via email.  You can post messages in English though we
> +also accept other languages.")
> +      ("eo"
> +       "Subskribu al la retmesaĝolisto \"Help\" por demandi helpon pri
> +GuixSD kaj GNU Guix al la grupo.  Vi povas skribi esperantlingve.")
> +      ("fr"
> +       "Abonnez-vous à la liste de diffusion « Help » pour obtenir l'aide
> +de la communauté sur GuixSD et GNU Guix par courrier électronique.  Vous
> +pouvez envoyer des messages en Français."))
> +
>      #:url "https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/help-guix"
>      #:log "https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/help-guix")
>  
> diff --git a/website/apps/base/templates/components.scm b/website/apps/base/templates/components.scm
> index b329c71..04d3a08 100644
> --- a/website/apps/base/templates/components.scm
> +++ b/website/apps/base/templates/components.scm
> @@ -13,6 +13,7 @@
>    #:use-module (apps base types)
>    #:use-module (apps base utils)
>    #:use-module (srfi srfi-1)
> +  #:use-module (ice-9 match)
>    #:export (breadcrumbs
>  	    button-big
>  	    button-little
> @@ -121,6 +122,11 @@
>       "…")))
>  
>  
> +(define (language-tag lang)
> +  `(span (@ (class "button-little button-little-active")
> +            (style "float: left; text-align: center; width: 20px; vertical-align: middle"))
> +         ,lang))
> +
>  (define (contact->shtml contact)
>    "Return an SHTML representation of the given contact object.
>  
> @@ -133,7 +139,18 @@
>  	 ""
>  	 `(small
>  	   " (" (a (@ (href ,(contact-log contact))) "archive") ") "))
> -    ,(contact-description contact)))
> +
> +    ;; The description can be a list of language/blurb pairs.
> +    ,(match (contact-description contact)
> +       ((((? string? languages) blurbs) ...)
> +        `(p ,@(map (lambda (language blurb)
> +                     `(div (@ (style "margin: 0 10px 10px 0"))
> +                           ,(language-tag language)
> +                           (div ,blurb)))
> +                   languages
> +                   blurbs)))
> +       (blurb
> +        blurb))))
>  
>  
>  (define* (horizontal-separator #:key (light #false))
> diff --git a/website/apps/base/templates/contact.scm b/website/apps/base/templates/contact.scm
> index 16e4b4e..c246d4b 100644
> --- a/website/apps/base/templates/contact.scm
> +++ b/website/apps/base/templates/contact.scm
> @@ -23,7 +23,8 @@
>       "Community" "Mailing lists" "IRC channels" "Bug reports" "Help")
>     #:active-menu-item "About"
>     #:css (list
> -	  (guix-url "static/base/css/page.css"))
> +	  (guix-url "static/base/css/page.css")
> +          (guix-url "static/base/css/buttons.css"))
>     #:crumbs (list (crumb "Contact" "./"))
>     #:content
>     `(main
> diff --git a/website/static/base/css/buttons.css b/website/static/base/css/buttons.css
> index 9e45190..feabcea 100644
> --- a/website/static/base/css/buttons.css
> +++ b/website/static/base/css/buttons.css
> @@ -37,6 +37,7 @@
>  }
>  
>  
> +.button-little,
>  .button-little:link,
>  .button-little:visited {
>      border-color: #C0C0C0;
> @@ -58,4 +59,4 @@
>  .button-little:hover {
>      background-color: #FFCC00;
>      border-color: #D4AA00;
> -}
> \ No newline at end of file
> +}

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Re: Posts in languages other than English on help-guix?

[Marco van Hulten]

Hei Marius,

Marius Bakke schreef op 3 maart 2018 21:06:27 CET:
> Marco van Hulten <marco@hulten.org> writes:
> 
> >      ("nb"
> >       "Abonner på diskusjonlisten «Help» for å få hjelp om GuixSD og
> > GNU Guix via e-post.  Du kan legge inn meldinger på norsk.")
> 
> Takk!  I think "diskusjonliste" should be "diskusjonsliste" as
> "diskusjon" is used in a passive infinite form (though good resources
> regarding this online was surprisingly difficult to come by).
> 
> "om" is also not the best preposition here, but I wonder if it's
> better
> to avoid "hjelp" altogether:
> 
>       ("nb"
>        "Meld deg på diskusjonslisten «Help» for å få råd og tips fra
> andre GuixSD- og GNU Guix-brukere via e-post.  Du kan legge inn
> meldinger på norsk.")
> 
> "Råd" here is used as a kind of advice that is "sought for", implying
> support.  Tips is..well, general advice.  WDYT?

Sounds very good, let's go with your translation!

Marco

Re: Posts in languages other than English on help-guix?

[Eric Bavier]

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On Fri, 02 Mar 2018 17:02:40 +0100
ludo@gnu.org (Ludovic Courtès) wrote:

> What about allowing posts on help-guix in one of the languages that
> regular contributors know, in addition to English?

Sounds like a good idea to me.

> Of course it’s hard to tell what a multilingual mailing list will be
> like, but I think it’s worth experimenting (and I don’t expect a
> significant change overnight).  If we are to reach out to more people,
> allowing them to use the language they know best is the minimum we can
> do IMO.

Indeed, it should be an interesting experiment.

Thanks for the proposal,
`~Eric

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Re: Posts in languages other than English on help-guix?

[Ludovic Courtès]

Hi Alex,

Alex Vong <alexvong1995@gmail.com> skribis:

> This is the traditional Chinese version:
>
>   訂閱「Help」郵件群組以電郵從GuixSD及GNU Guix社群取得支援。你可以使用正體、繁體中文發送訊息。
>
> The locale should be zh_TW (for Taiwan), zh_HK (for Hong Kong) and zh_mo
> (for Macau). Should I use a let to avoid duplication?

As long as the above sentence is intelligible to people from all these
regions, it’s enough to write “zh” I guess?  (It’s meant to be a
language tag for humans to read, not an actual locale specification.)

Ludo’.

Re: Posts in languages other than English on help-guix?

[Ludovic Courtès]

Hello Guix!

Thanks everyone who contributed a translation!  I think I picked the
latest version of each:

  https://www.gnu.org/software/guix/contact/

Please send a patch if anything’s wrong or missing.

From now on, make sure to monitor help-guix, people.  :-)

Thanks to Ricardo, who’s the one who came up with this idea during the
pre-FOSDEM workshop.  I was skeptical at the time, but I think it’s
going to be at least a great experiment!

Ludo’.

Re: Posts in languages other than English on help-guix?

[julien lepiller]

Le 2018-03-05 09:57, ludo@gnu.org a écrit :
> Hello Guix!
> 
> Thanks everyone who contributed a translation!  I think I picked the
> latest version of each:
> 
>   https://www.gnu.org/software/guix/contact/
> 
> Please send a patch if anything’s wrong or missing.
> 
> From now on, make sure to monitor help-guix, people.  :-)
> 
> Thanks to Ricardo, who’s the one who came up with this idea during the
> pre-FOSDEM workshop.  I was skeptical at the time, but I think it’s
> going to be at least a great experiment!
> 
> Ludo’.

Hi, could you add a lang="…" attribute on the div? I heard it's better 
for screen readers.

Re: Posts in languages other than English on help-guix?

[Ludovic Courtès]

julien lepiller <julien@lepiller.eu> skribis:

> Hi, could you add a lang="…" attribute on the div? I heard it's better
> for screen readers.

Done, thanks for the tip!

Ludo’.

Language tag for traditional Chinese (was: Posts in languages other than English on help-guix?)

[Tobias Geerinckx-Rice]

Ludo', Alex,

On 2018-03-05 9:45, ludo@gnu.org wrote:
>> The locale should be zh_TW (for Taiwan), zh_HK (for Hong Kong) and 
>> zh_mo
>> (for Macau). Should I use a let to avoid duplication?
> 
> As long as the above sentence is intelligible to people from all these
> regions, it’s enough to write “zh” I guess?  (It’s meant to be a
> language tag for humans to read, not an actual locale specification.)

I'd definitely avoid that. For better or worse, ‘zh’ is assumed to equal 
‘zh_CN’ or simplified Chinese.

If a single code for traditional Chinese is required, Wikipedia has this 
to say:

   ‘The World Wide Web Consortium recommends the use of the language tag 
zh-Hant as a language attribute value and Content-Language value to 
specify web-page content in Traditional Chinese.’[0]

In practice, the locale ‘zh_TW’ is often used instead. For example:

   ‘The standard locale for simplified Chinese is zh_CN. The standard 
locale for traditional Chinese is zh_TW.’[1]

...but I don't like that very much. I'd go with the W3C, but I'm not 
exactly a native speaker. Alex?

Kind regards,

T G-R

[0]: 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traditional_Chinese_characters#Computer_encoding
[1]: 
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/4892372/language-codes-for-simplified-chinese-and-traditional-chinese

Sent from a Web browser. Excuse or enjoy my brevity.

Re: Posts in languages other than English on help-guix?

[julien lepiller]

Le 2018-03-05 15:14, ludo@gnu.org a écrit :
> julien lepiller <julien@lepiller.eu> skribis:
> 
>> Hi, could you add a lang="…" attribute on the div? I heard it's better
>> for screen readers.
> 
> Done, thanks for the tip!
> 
> Ludo’.

Oh, with the traditional version being on only one line, the following 
paragraph (bug reporting) is indented with the "zh" box.

You could try adding a style="clear: both" to the last "p" block in the 
contact-medium div, and add "; clear: both" on each div (if there is a 
one-line paragraph, the next language block would be indented).

Re: Language tag for traditional Chinese

[Alex Vong]

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Hello Tobias, Ludo,

Tobias Geerinckx-Rice <me@tobias.gr> writes:

> Ludo', Alex,
>
> On 2018-03-05 9:45, ludo@gnu.org wrote:
>>> The locale should be zh_TW (for Taiwan), zh_HK (for Hong Kong) and
>>> zh_mo
>>> (for Macau). Should I use a let to avoid duplication?
>>
>> As long as the above sentence is intelligible to people from all these
>> regions, it’s enough to write “zh” I guess?  (It’s meant to be a
>> language tag for humans to read, not an actual locale specification.)
>
> I'd definitely avoid that. For better or worse, ‘zh’ is assumed to
> equal ‘zh_CN’ or simplified Chinese.
>
I agree. In written Chinese, the 2 dialects of simplified and
traditional Chinese are quite different. Not only the characters are
different (of course quite a few are still shared), sometimes the
wording is different too due to cultural difference (similar to British
vs American English). So we should at least have 2 different locales I
think.

> If a single code for traditional Chinese is required, Wikipedia has
> this to say:
>
>   ‘The World Wide Web Consortium recommends the use of the language
> tag zh-Hant as a language attribute value and Content-Language value
> to specify web-page content in Traditional Chinese.’[0]
>
> In practice, the locale ‘zh_TW’ is often used instead. For example:
>
>   ‘The standard locale for simplified Chinese is zh_CN. The standard
> locale for traditional Chinese is zh_TW.’[1]
>
> ...but I don't like that very much. I'd go with the W3C, but I'm not
> exactly a native speaker. Alex?
>
I would also like to follow W3C if possible. However, I am not sure how
well it is supported by browsers? Is there some way to test it?

Also, I see that guix has simplified Chinese translated in
'guix/po/guix'. Are we required to use the same locale in guix and in
the web page?

I also want to add tranditional Chinese translation to guix in the
future (after I figure out how to use handwriting recognition). I think
I will still use the zh_TW since I think it is an established convention
for distro. But I am not sure if the same convention holds for web
page.

> Kind regards,
>
> T G-R
>
> [0]:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traditional_Chinese_characters#Computer_encoding
> [1]:
> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/4892372/language-codes-for-simplified-chinese-and-traditional-chinese
>
> Sent from a Web browser. Excuse or enjoy my brevity.

Cheers,
Alex

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Re: Posts in languages other than English on help-guix?

[Oleg Pykhalov]

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Hello Ludovic and Guix,

ludo@gnu.org (Ludovic Courtès) writes:

> What about allowing posts on help-guix in one of the languages that
> regular contributors know, in addition to English?

Most of time people with a specific language create a disconnected
community forums or mailing lists.  For example, we have Russian
communities in Arch [1] and Ubuntu [2].  Because of that experience I
think it's not worth to merge all languages in one place.

- [1]  https://archlinux.org.ru/
- [2]  http://forum.ubuntu.ru/

Either way I attached a translation in Russian below.

> […]
> +    `(("en"
> +       "Subscribe to the Help mailing list to get support from the GuixSD
> +and GNU Guix community via email.  You can post messages in English though we
> +also accept other languages.")

      ("ru"
       "Подпишитесь на список рассылки «Help», чтобы получить помощь от
сообществ GuixSD и GNU Guix по электронной почте.  Вы можете писать на русском
языке.")

Oleg.

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Re: Language tag for traditional Chinese

[Andreas Enge]

Hello,

On Tue, Mar 06, 2018 at 08:35:46PM +0800, Alex Vong wrote:
> I also want to add tranditional Chinese translation to guix in the
> future (after I figure out how to use handwriting recognition). I think
> I will still use the zh_TW since I think it is an established convention
> for distro. But I am not sure if the same convention holds for web
> page.

if you look at the web page of the Translation Project, the two Chinese
language codes seem to be zh_CN and zh_TW:
   https://translationproject.org/team/index.html
There is also zh_HK, but no translation team is referenced for it.

Andreas

Re: Language tag for traditional Chinese

[Ludovic Courtès]

Hello,

Alex Vong <alexvong1995@gmail.com> skribis:

> Tobias Geerinckx-Rice <me@tobias.gr> writes:
>
>> Ludo', Alex,
>>
>> On 2018-03-05 9:45, ludo@gnu.org wrote:
>>>> The locale should be zh_TW (for Taiwan), zh_HK (for Hong Kong) and
>>>> zh_mo
>>>> (for Macau). Should I use a let to avoid duplication?
>>>
>>> As long as the above sentence is intelligible to people from all these
>>> regions, it’s enough to write “zh” I guess?  (It’s meant to be a
>>> language tag for humans to read, not an actual locale specification.)
>>
>> I'd definitely avoid that. For better or worse, ‘zh’ is assumed to
>> equal ‘zh_CN’ or simplified Chinese.
>>
> I agree. In written Chinese, the 2 dialects of simplified and
> traditional Chinese are quite different. Not only the characters are
> different (of course quite a few are still shared), sometimes the
> wording is different too due to cultural difference (similar to British
> vs American English).

Good to know, thanks for explaining.

> So we should at least have 2 different locales I think.

We were talking about the web site, no locales involved.  :-)

Can you send me a patch against guix-artwork.git (which contains the web
site) so I can adjust that page accordingly?

Thanks in advance,
Ludo’.

Re: Posts in languages other than English on help-guix?

[Alex Kost]

Oleg Pykhalov (2018-03-07 12:46 +0300) wrote:

> Hello Ludovic and Guix,
>
> ludo@gnu.org (Ludovic Courtès) writes:
[...]
>> +    `(("en"
>> +       "Subscribe to the Help mailing list to get support from the GuixSD
>> +and GNU Guix community via email.  You can post messages in English though we
>> +also accept other languages.")
>
>       ("ru"
>        "Подпишитесь на список рассылки «Help», чтобы получить помощь от
> сообществ GuixSD и GNU Guix по электронной почте.  Вы можете писать на русском
  ^^^^^^^^^

I would write "сообщества" here (in a singular form, not the plural one)
as there is a single GuixSD and GNU Guix community, not 2 separate
communities.

> языке.")

-- 
Alex

Re: Posts in languages other than English on help-guix?

[Oleg Pykhalov]

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Hello Alex,

Alex Kost <alezost@gmail.com> writes:

> Oleg Pykhalov (2018-03-07 12:46 +0300) wrote:
> 
>>> +    `(("en"
>>> +       "Subscribe to the Help mailing list to get support from the GuixSD
>>> +and GNU Guix community via email.  You can post messages in English though we
>>> +also accept other languages.")
>>
>>       ("ru"
>>        "Подпишитесь на список рассылки «Help», чтобы получить помощь от
>> сообществ GuixSD и GNU Guix по электронной почте.  Вы можете писать на русском
>   ^^^^^^^^^
>
> I would write "сообщества" here (in a singular form, not the plural one)
> as there is a single GuixSD and GNU Guix community, not 2 separate
> communities.

I agree, apologies for this.  Also the original English text has a
“community” word, not “communities”.  So, at the end we got:

      ("ru"
       "Подпишитесь на список рассылки «Help», чтобы получить помощь от
сообщества GuixSD и GNU Guix по электронной почте.  Вы можете писать на русском
языке.")

Thanks,
Oleg.

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Re: Posts in languages other than English on help-guix?

[Ludovic Courtès]

Здра́вствуйте!

Oleg Pykhalov <go.wigust@gmail.com> skribis:

>       ("ru"
>        "Подпишитесь на список рассылки «Help», чтобы получить помощь от
> сообщества GuixSD и GNU Guix по электронной почте.  Вы можете писать на русском
> языке.")

Applied, thank you!

Ludo’.

Re: Posts in languages other than English on help-guix?

[Ludovic Courtès]

Oleg Pykhalov <go.wigust@gmail.com> skribis:

> ludo@gnu.org (Ludovic Courtès) writes:
>
>> What about allowing posts on help-guix in one of the languages that
>> regular contributors know, in addition to English?
>
> Most of time people with a specific language create a disconnected
> community forums or mailing lists.  For example, we have Russian
> communities in Arch [1] and Ubuntu [2].  Because of that experience I
> think it's not worth to merge all languages in one place.
>
> - [1]  https://archlinux.org.ru/
> - [2]  http://forum.ubuntu.ru/

I guess an obvious difference is that these two groups are much bigger
than Guix.  :-)

I like the idea of creating strong ties among people around the project,
and I think avoiding fragmentation is one way to achieve it.  But I
agree it’s also a question of scale, and perhaps eventually we’ll do
just like Arch, Ubuntu, and others (and by “we”, I really mean “someone”
because these things aren’t centralized at all).  We’ll see!

Ludo’.

Re: Posts in languages other than English on help-guix?

[Ludovic Courtès]

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Hi Julien,

julien lepiller <julien@lepiller.eu> skribis:

> Oh, with the traditional version being on only one line, the following
> paragraph (bug reporting) is indented with the "zh" box.
>
> You could try adding a style="clear: both" to the last "p" block in
> the contact-medium div, and add "; clear: both" on each div (if there
> is a one-line paragraph, the next language block would be indented).

I don’t see the problem with IceCat 52.6.0-gnu1 from Guix:


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[-- Attachment #3: Type: text/plain, Size: 259 bytes --]


Does this show up with different browsers?

Regardless, please feel free to commit something that works for you in
the guix-artwork.git repo.  I’m not much of a Web developer so any help
in that area is greatly appreciated.  :-)

Thanks,
Ludo’.

Re: Posts in languages other than English on help-guix?

[Chris Marusich]

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ludo@gnu.org (Ludovic Courtès) writes:

> Hello Guix!
>
> What about allowing posts on help-guix in one of the languages that
> regular contributors know, in addition to English?

I like it!  Here's a patch for Japanese.  Is there anything else I need
to add, or is that it?  I didn't test this because I'm not familiar with
how to test the website and I'm a little pressed for time right now.

-- 
Chris

[-- Attachment #1.2: 0001-website-contacts-Add-Japanese-translation-for-help-g.patch --]
[-- Type: text/x-patch, Size: 1256 bytes --]

From 19bc5d9f53a7d6f0a1bc64428e6224cd07c74f3c Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001
From: Chris Marusich <cmmarusich@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2018 19:40:13 +0100
Subject: [PATCH] website: contacts: Add Japanese translation for help-guix.

* website/apps/base/data.scm (contact-media): Add "jp" translation.
---
 website/apps/base/data.scm | 4 ++++
 1 file changed, 4 insertions(+)

diff --git a/website/apps/base/data.scm b/website/apps/base/data.scm
index 2fc7687..501b00a 100644
--- a/website/apps/base/data.scm
+++ b/website/apps/base/data.scm
@@ -55,6 +55,10 @@ e-mailben a GuixSD és a GNU Guix közösségtől. Magyarul is küldhet
        "Iscrivetevi alla mailing list 'Help' per essere aiutati da altri
 utenti di Guix e GuixSD.  Potete scrivere sulla mailing list anche in
 italiano.")
+      ("ja"
+       "メールでGNU_GuixとGuixSDのコミュニティからサポートを受けるには、
+「Help」のメーリングリストに登録してください。
+日本語で書いても構いませんが、その他の言語でも受け取ります。")
       ("nb"
        "Meld deg på diskusjonslisten «Help» for å få råd og tips fra
 andre GuixSD- og GNU Guix-brukere via e-post.  Du kan legge inn
-- 
2.15.1


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Re: Posts in languages other than English on help-guix?

[Chris Marusich]

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Chris Marusich <cmmarusich@gmail.com> writes:

> ludo@gnu.org (Ludovic Courtès) writes:
>
>> Hello Guix!
>>
>> What about allowing posts on help-guix in one of the languages that
>> regular contributors know, in addition to English?
>
> I like it!  Here's a patch for Japanese.  Is there anything else I need
> to add, or is that it?  I didn't test this because I'm not familiar with
> how to test the website and I'm a little pressed for time right now.

Please use this version of the patch instead.  I changed the second
sentence to sound less casual.

-- 
Chris

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[-- Type: text/x-patch, Size: 1280 bytes --]

From e817d96b6a52eb6450c2edb4e03ccbfdce30d9d6 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001
From: Chris Marusich <cmmarusich@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2018 19:40:13 +0100
Subject: [PATCH] website: contacts: Add Japanese translation for help-guix.

* website/apps/base/data.scm (contact-media): Add "jp" translation.
---
 website/apps/base/data.scm | 4 ++++
 1 file changed, 4 insertions(+)

diff --git a/website/apps/base/data.scm b/website/apps/base/data.scm
index 2fc7687..35d0c5e 100644
--- a/website/apps/base/data.scm
+++ b/website/apps/base/data.scm
@@ -55,6 +55,10 @@ e-mailben a GuixSD és a GNU Guix közösségtől. Magyarul is küldhet
        "Iscrivetevi alla mailing list 'Help' per essere aiutati da altri
 utenti di Guix e GuixSD.  Potete scrivere sulla mailing list anche in
 italiano.")
+      ("ja"
+       "メールでGNU_GuixとGuixSDのコミュニティからサポートを受けるには、
+「Help」のメーリングリストに登録してください。
+メッセージ内容は日本語でも問題ございませんが、多言語でも受け付けております。")
       ("nb"
        "Meld deg på diskusjonslisten «Help» for å få råd og tips fra
 andre GuixSD- og GNU Guix-brukere via e-post.  Du kan legge inn
-- 
2.15.1


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Re: Posts in languages other than English on help-guix?

[julien lepiller]

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Le 2018-03-10 16:19, ludo@gnu.org a écrit :
> Hi Julien,
> 
> julien lepiller <julien@lepiller.eu> skribis:
> 
>> Oh, with the traditional version being on only one line, the following
>> paragraph (bug reporting) is indented with the "zh" box.
>> 
>> You could try adding a style="clear: both" to the last "p" block in
>> the contact-medium div, and add "; clear: both" on each div (if there
>> is a one-line paragraph, the next language block would be indented).
> 
> I don’t see the problem with IceCat 52.6.0-gnu1 from Guix:
> 
> 
> 
> Does this show up with different browsers?
> 
> Regardless, please feel free to commit something that works for you in
> the guix-artwork.git repo.  I’m not much of a Web developer so any help
> in that area is greatly appreciated.  :-)
> 
> Thanks,
> Ludo’.

So, here is what I see and a patch to fix it. I think it won't work on 
IE <= 9, do we care?

[-- Attachment #2: contact-bug.png --]
[-- Type: image/png, Size: 23046 bytes --]

[-- Warning: decoded text below may be mangled, UTF-8 assumed --]
[-- Attachment #3: 0001-website-contacts-Improve-style.patch --]
[-- Type: text/x-diff; name=0001-website-contacts-Improve-style.patch, Size: 1558 bytes --]

From 2e2146d16a999002a0f8f9f8d0d1fc4c3275ea62 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001
From: Julien Lepiller <julien@lepiller.eu>
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2018 16:08:31 +0100
Subject: [PATCH] website: contacts: Improve style.

* website/apps/base/templates/components.scm (contact->shtml): Use flexbox.
---
 website/apps/base/templates/components.scm | 6 +++---
 1 file changed, 3 insertions(+), 3 deletions(-)

diff --git a/website/apps/base/templates/components.scm b/website/apps/base/templates/components.scm
index b7ec218..39c836b 100644
--- a/website/apps/base/templates/components.scm
+++ b/website/apps/base/templates/components.scm
@@ -124,7 +124,7 @@
 
 (define (language-tag lang)
   `(span (@ (class "button-little button-little-active")
-            (style "float: left; text-align: center; width: 20px; vertical-align: middle"))
+            (style "text-align: center; width: 20px; vertical-align: middle"))
          ,lang))
 
 (define (contact->shtml contact)
@@ -144,9 +144,9 @@
     ,(match (contact-description contact)
        ((((? string? languages) blurbs) ...)
         `(p ,@(map (lambda (language blurb)
-                     `(div (@ (style "margin: 0 10px 10px 0"))
+                     `(div (@ (style "display: flex; align-items: center; margin: 0 10px 10px 0"))
                            ,(language-tag language)
-                           (div (@ (lang ,language)) ,blurb)))
+                           (div (@ (lang ,language) (style "flex: 1")) ,blurb)))
                    languages
                    blurbs)))
        (blurb
-- 
2.16.2

Re: Posts in languages other than English on help-guix?

[Ludovic Courtès]

Hello,

julien lepiller <julien@lepiller.eu> skribis:

> So, here is what I see and a patch to fix it. I think it won't work on
> IE <= 9, do we care?

I think we don’t.  :-)

> From 2e2146d16a999002a0f8f9f8d0d1fc4c3275ea62 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001
> From: Julien Lepiller <julien@lepiller.eu>
> Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2018 16:08:31 +0100
> Subject: [PATCH] website: contacts: Improve style.
>
> * website/apps/base/templates/components.scm (contact->shtml): Use flexbox.

Excellent, please push!

Thanks,
Ludo’.

Re: Posts in languages other than English on help-guix?

[Ludovic Courtès]

Chris Marusich <cmmarusich@gmail.com> skribis:

> From e817d96b6a52eb6450c2edb4e03ccbfdce30d9d6 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001
> From: Chris Marusich <cmmarusich@gmail.com>
> Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2018 19:40:13 +0100
> Subject: [PATCH] website: contacts: Add Japanese translation for help-guix.
>
> * website/apps/base/data.scm (contact-media): Add "jp" translation.

Awesome, please push!

(I’ll take care of the CVS sync afterwards.)

Thanks,
Ludo’.

Re: Posts in languages other than English on help-guix?

[Chris Marusich]

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ludo@gnu.org (Ludovic Courtès) writes:

> Chris Marusich <cmmarusich@gmail.com> skribis:
>
>> From e817d96b6a52eb6450c2edb4e03ccbfdce30d9d6 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001
>> From: Chris Marusich <cmmarusich@gmail.com>
>> Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2018 19:40:13 +0100
>> Subject: [PATCH] website: contacts: Add Japanese translation for help-guix.
>>
>> * website/apps/base/data.scm (contact-media): Add "jp" translation.
>
> Awesome, please push!
>
> (I’ll take care of the CVS sync afterwards.)

I've pushed this as 797a4966befca1ee63d2f1741a3487cf2ae35558.

-- 
Chris

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Re: Posts in languages other than English on help-guix?

[Ludovic Courtès]

Heya Chris,

Chris Marusich <cmmarusich@gmail.com> skribis:

> ludo@gnu.org (Ludovic Courtès) writes:
>
>> Chris Marusich <cmmarusich@gmail.com> skribis:
>>
>>> From e817d96b6a52eb6450c2edb4e03ccbfdce30d9d6 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001
>>> From: Chris Marusich <cmmarusich@gmail.com>
>>> Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2018 19:40:13 +0100
>>> Subject: [PATCH] website: contacts: Add Japanese translation for help-guix.
>>>
>>> * website/apps/base/data.scm (contact-media): Add "jp" translation.
>>
>> Awesome, please push!
>>
>> (I’ll take care of the CVS sync afterwards.)
>
> I've pushed this as 797a4966befca1ee63d2f1741a3487cf2ae35558.

I’ve synced the web site, thank you!

Ludo’.

Re: Language tag for traditional Chinese

[Alex Vong]

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ludo@gnu.org (Ludovic Courtès) writes:

> Hello,
>
> Alex Vong <alexvong1995@gmail.com> skribis:
>
>> Tobias Geerinckx-Rice <me@tobias.gr> writes:
>>
>>> Ludo', Alex,
>>>
>>> On 2018-03-05 9:45, ludo@gnu.org wrote:
>>>>> The locale should be zh_TW (for Taiwan), zh_HK (for Hong Kong) and
>>>>> zh_mo
>>>>> (for Macau). Should I use a let to avoid duplication?
>>>>
>>>> As long as the above sentence is intelligible to people from all these
>>>> regions, it’s enough to write “zh” I guess?  (It’s meant to be a
>>>> language tag for humans to read, not an actual locale specification.)
>>>
>>> I'd definitely avoid that. For better or worse, ‘zh’ is assumed to
>>> equal ‘zh_CN’ or simplified Chinese.
>>>
>> I agree. In written Chinese, the 2 dialects of simplified and
>> traditional Chinese are quite different. Not only the characters are
>> different (of course quite a few are still shared), sometimes the
>> wording is different too due to cultural difference (similar to British
>> vs American English).
>
> Good to know, thanks for explaining.
>
>> So we should at least have 2 different locales I think.
>
> We were talking about the web site, no locales involved.  :-)
>
> Can you send me a patch against guix-artwork.git (which contains the web
> site) so I can adjust that page accordingly?
>
My bad, I somehow manage to miss this message for 3/4 year.

According to w3c[0], it is recommended that, "where possible, use the
codes zh-Hans and zh-Hant to refer to Simplified and Traditional
Chinese, respectively". So I decide to reconsider my earlier decision and
use zh-Hant instead. The patch is available in [1].

> Thanks in advance,
> Ludo’.

Cheers,
Alex

[0]: https://www.w3.org/TR/i18n-html-tech-lang/#langvalues
[1]: https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=33657

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