Some questions regarding GuixSD

Some questions regarding GuixSD

[dian_cecht]

Hello,

     I have a few questions about GuixSD that I need to have answered before I
can think about trying to install it. For some background on myself, I'm a
long-time Gentoo user, and I've used Funtoo and Arch some in the past.

1) Is there any way to prevent a package from being installed at all?
2) Are multiple versions of a package in the tree at any given time?
3) Is there any way to install GuixSD from something other than the LiveUSB
image on the site?
4) Is GnuNET integration already working?
5) How do I install Guix for a nonroot account in another distro?

I'm also curious what the current plans are for Guix/GuixSD are.

Re: Some questions regarding GuixSD

[Ludovic Courtès]

Hi,

dian_cecht@zoho.com skribis:

> 1) Is there any way to prevent a package from being installed at all?

Only packages that you want are “installed”, in the sense that only
packages that you explicitly ask for are available in your user profile.

The /gnu/store directory may contain other packages, but you don’t have
to worry about that.

> 2) Are multiple versions of a package in the tree at any given time?

You can have multiple profiles, each containing a different version of a
given package, for example.

The source tree of Guix itself usually only contains the latest version
of each package.  There are exceptions for packages where it makes sense
to keep several stable series in parallel: GCC, Python, Guile, etc.

> 3) Is there any way to install GuixSD from something other than the LiveUSB
> image on the site?

You can install Guix on top of your GNU/Linux system and run:

  guix system init config.scm /

Be careful: this is a one-way change!

> 4) Is GnuNET integration already working?

No.

> 5) How do I install Guix for a nonroot account in another distro?

First you install it as root, as described in the installation
instructions at <https://www.gnu.org/software/guix/download/>.
Then all the users on that system, root or not, can use it.

> I'm also curious what the current plans are for Guix/GuixSD are.

The ‘ROADMAP’ file lists remaining features or issues that need to be
addressed before 1.0.  If everything goes well, 1.0 will be ready within
6 months or so.

HTH!

Ludo’.

Re: Some questions regarding GuixSD

[ng0]

Hi,

I hope you don't mind if I add to this some lines.

Ludovic Courtès <ludo@gnu.org> writes:

> Hi,
>
> dian_cecht@zoho.com skribis:
>
>> 1) Is there any way to prevent a package from being installed at all?
>
> Only packages that you want are “installed”, in the sense that only
> packages that you explicitly ask for are available in your user profile.
>
> The /gnu/store directory may contain other packages, but you don’t have
> to worry about that.
>
>> 2) Are multiple versions of a package in the tree at any given time?
>
> You can have multiple profiles, each containing a different version of a
> given package, for example.
>
> The source tree of Guix itself usually only contains the latest version
> of each package.  There are exceptions for packages where it makes sense
> to keep several stable series in parallel: GCC, Python, Guile, etc.
>
>> 3) Is there any way to install GuixSD from something other than the LiveUSB
>> image on the site?
>
> You can install Guix on top of your GNU/Linux system and run:
>
>   guix system init config.scm /
>
> Be careful: this is a one-way change!
>
>> 4) Is GnuNET integration already working?
>
> No.

It's a bit of a stretch (in time), but I've applied for funding
yesterday and one of the 3 ideas is to push gnunet integration further,
to aid the live-system I am working on. I say 'stretch' because this is
a topic which requires some preparing contributions and then lots of
testing and diving deeper into the core of Guix :)
So if all goes well, I know around december if I qualified with my idea
for funding and can almost worry-free hack on this for another 6
months.
It's like Google Summer of Code, only a bit longer. I'll very optimistic
and say that my internal documented goal for basic gnunet-filesystem
integration for guix is summer / autumn 2017.

>> 5) How do I install Guix for a nonroot account in another distro?
>
> First you install it as root, as described in the installation
> instructions at <https://www.gnu.org/software/guix/download/>.
> Then all the users on that system, root or not, can use it.
>
>> I'm also curious what the current plans are for Guix/GuixSD are.
>
> The ‘ROADMAP’ file lists remaining features or issues that need to be
> addressed before 1.0.  If everything goes well, 1.0 will be ready within
> 6 months or so.
>
> HTH!
>
> Ludo’.
>
>

-- 
               ng0
#.endofsubmission.

Re: Some questions regarding GuixSD

[Ludovic Courtès]

Hi!

ng0 <ngillmann@runbox.com> skribis:

> Ludovic Courtès <ludo@gnu.org> writes:

[...]

>>> 4) Is GnuNET integration already working?
>>
>> No.
>
> It's a bit of a stretch (in time), but I've applied for funding
> yesterday and one of the 3 ideas is to push gnunet integration further,
> to aid the live-system I am working on. I say 'stretch' because this is
> a topic which requires some preparing contributions and then lots of
> testing and diving deeper into the core of Guix :)
> So if all goes well, I know around december if I qualified with my idea
> for funding and can almost worry-free hack on this for another 6
> months.
> It's like Google Summer of Code, only a bit longer. I'll very optimistic
> and say that my internal documented goal for basic gnunet-filesystem
> integration for guix is summer / autumn 2017.

That would be awesome!

I really hope a regular release cycle will be running for GNUnet by
then, because that’s currently quite a showstopper IMO.

Good luck with your application!

Ludo’.

Re: Some questions regarding GuixSD

[ng0]

Ludovic Courtès <ludo@gnu.org> writes:

> Hi!
>
> ng0 <ngillmann@runbox.com> skribis:
>
>> Ludovic Courtès <ludo@gnu.org> writes:
>
> [...]
>
>>>> 4) Is GnuNET integration already working?
>>>
>>> No.
>>
>> It's a bit of a stretch (in time), but I've applied for funding
>> yesterday and one of the 3 ideas is to push gnunet integration further,
>> to aid the live-system I am working on. I say 'stretch' because this is
>> a topic which requires some preparing contributions and then lots of
>> testing and diving deeper into the core of Guix :)
>> So if all goes well, I know around december if I qualified with my idea
>> for funding and can almost worry-free hack on this for another 6
>> months.
>> It's like Google Summer of Code, only a bit longer. I'll very optimistic
>> and say that my internal documented goal for basic gnunet-filesystem
>> integration for guix is summer / autumn 2017.
>
> That would be awesome!
>
> I really hope a regular release cycle will be running for GNUnet by
> then, because that’s currently quite a showstopper IMO.

I think Christian mentioned some tasks which need to be done to make
this happen. Maybe you could get in touch with him about this and ask
how Guix and GNUnet can cooperate with this?

If only cuiras could produce tarballs (or run additional tasks which
lead to tarballs) for other systems to use, that would be a great
option.

> Good luck with your application!
>
> Ludo’.
>

Thanks!
-- 

Re: Some questions regarding GuixSD

[dian_cecht]

On Fri, Sep 30, 2016 at 12:07:22PM +0000, ng0 wrote:
> >> 4) Is GnuNET integration already working?
> >
> > No.
>
> <snipped>
>
> It's like Google Summer of Code, only a bit longer. I'll very optimistic
> and say that my internal documented goal for basic gnunet-filesystem
> integration for guix is summer / autumn 2017.

I was under the impression that GnuNET was going to be used for a distributed
hashing system or something for the Guix build system so people could check to
see if the packages they were installing were correct or not. What other
integration is currently being planned, if I may ask?

Re: Some questions regarding GuixSD

[dian_cecht]

On Fri, Sep 30, 2016 at 10:18:40AM +0200, Ludovic Courtès wrote:
> > 2) Are multiple versions of a package in the tree at any given time?
> 
> You can have multiple profiles, each containing a different version of a
> given package, for example.
> 
> The source tree of Guix itself usually only contains the latest version
> of each package.  There are exceptions for packages where it makes sense
> to keep several stable series in parallel: GCC, Python, Guile, etc.

I don't know where Guix/GuixSD is in regards to the plans for it, and I havn't
had a chance to glance at the ROADMAP you mentioned later in this email, but I
can say from personal experience that maintaining one and only one version of a
package in a tree is a Really Bad Idea. When I used Arch they had (and may still
have, I have no clue what has happened with that distro since) a policy to only
maintain one version of any package at any given time in the distro. This is a
huge PITA and sometimes can make a system unusable if a package breaks. I
distinctly recall having one package I relied on breaking when I used Arch and
having to wait a few days for them to release a new version.

> 
> > 3) Is there any way to install GuixSD from something other than the LiveUSB
> > image on the site?
> 
> You can install Guix on top of your GNU/Linux system and run:
> 
>   guix system init config.scm /
> 
> Be careful: this is a one-way change!

So as long as Guix is installed correctly in the host system, the aforementioned
command is effectivly the install phase, while the rest is simply setting up the
enviroment for the new system? I can certain get behind that.

Thanks for the information; expect more questions from me.

Re: Some questions regarding GuixSD

[宋文武]

dian_cecht@zoho.com writes:

> On Fri, Sep 30, 2016 at 10:18:40AM +0200, Ludovic Courtès wrote:
>> > 2) Are multiple versions of a package in the tree at any given time?
>> 
>> You can have multiple profiles, each containing a different version of a
>> given package, for example.
>> 
>> The source tree of Guix itself usually only contains the latest version
>> of each package.  There are exceptions for packages where it makes sense
>> to keep several stable series in parallel: GCC, Python, Guile, etc.
>
> I don't know where Guix/GuixSD is in regards to the plans for it, and I havn't
> had a chance to glance at the ROADMAP you mentioned later in this email, but I
> can say from personal experience that maintaining one and only one version of a
> package in a tree is a Really Bad Idea. When I used Arch they had (and may still
> have, I have no clue what has happened with that distro since) a policy to only
> maintain one version of any package at any given time in the distro. This is a
> huge PITA and sometimes can make a system unusable if a package breaks. I
> distinctly recall having one package I relied on breaking when I used Arch and
> having to wait a few days for them to release a new version.

On GuixSD, you can rollback the whole system safely and easily (by
choosing a grub menu item at boot).  And the CI service (hydra) is
building (each package if any of its inputs changed) and testing (system
with services in qemu) the whole distribution.

While in Guix it's easier than Debian or ArchLinux to have multiple
versions of the same packages, it's reasonble only do it when needed :-)

>
>> 
>> > 3) Is there any way to install GuixSD from something other than the LiveUSB
>> > image on the site?
>> 
>> You can install Guix on top of your GNU/Linux system and run:
>> 
>>   guix system init config.scm /
>> 
>> Be careful: this is a one-way change!
>
> So as long as Guix is installed correctly in the host system, the aforementioned
> command is effectivly the install phase, while the rest is simply setting up the
> enviroment for the new system? I can certain get behind that.

Yes, the install phase mainly contains:

- build the system from config, only write to /gnu/store. (safe)
- deploy the system to target, overwrite /etc, /var/, etc.
  and install the grub bootloader. (dangerous)

You can install it into a seperate partion (same as in the Manual),
it's more safe IMO.

Re: Some questions regarding GuixSD

[dian_cecht]

On Sat, Oct 01, 2016 at 09:50:11AM +0800, 宋文武 wrote:
> dian_cecht@zoho.com writes:
> 
> On GuixSD, you can rollback the whole system safely and easily (by
> choosing a grub menu item at boot).

I don't guess you happen to be able to supply me with the options passed to do
this, would you? My systems aren't exactly standard installs, and I don't use
GRUB for anything at the moment (this may or may not change depending on where I
feel Guix fits into my systems, and whether I end up migrating everything over,
or if it's just one computer that has a GuixSD install on it).

Re: Some questions regarding GuixSD

[宋文武]

dian_cecht@zoho.com writes:

> On Sat, Oct 01, 2016 at 09:50:11AM +0800, 宋文武 wrote:
>> dian_cecht@zoho.com writes:
>> 
>> On GuixSD, you can rollback the whole system safely and easily (by
>> choosing a grub menu item at boot).
>
> I don't guess you happen to be able to supply me with the options passed to do
> this, would you?

Ah, that's managed by guix on GuixSD, which produces a grub.cfg with menu
containing all systems (current and previous if not deleted explicitly)
it ever built.  No option needed.

> My systems aren't exactly standard installs, and I don't use
> GRUB for anything at the moment (this may or may not change depending on where I
> feel Guix fits into my systems, and whether I end up migrating everything over,
> or if it's just one computer that has a GuixSD install on it).

OK, muli-boot with GuixSD can be done with chainloader, etc. but it's a
bit tricky.  You probably want to try it in a VM (eg: guix system vm)
first :-)

Re: Some questions regarding GuixSD

[ng0]

宋文武 <iyzsong@member.fsf.org> writes:

> dian_cecht@zoho.com writes:
>
>> On Sat, Oct 01, 2016 at 09:50:11AM +0800, 宋文武 wrote:
>>> dian_cecht@zoho.com writes:
>>> 
>>> On GuixSD, you can rollback the whole system safely and easily (by
>>> choosing a grub menu item at boot).
>>
>> I don't guess you happen to be able to supply me with the options passed to do
>> this, would you?
>
> Ah, that's managed by guix on GuixSD, which produces a grub.cfg with menu
> containing all systems (current and previous if not deleted explicitly)
> it ever built.  No option needed.
>
>> My systems aren't exactly standard installs, and I don't use
>> GRUB for anything at the moment (this may or may not change depending on where I
>> feel Guix fits into my systems, and whether I end up migrating everything over,
>> or if it's just one computer that has a GuixSD install on it).
>
> OK, muli-boot with GuixSD can be done with chainloader, etc. but it's a
> bit tricky.  You probably want to try it in a VM (eg: guix system vm)
> first :-)

I think we should add this to the docs, this is a relatively regular
occuring question, the multi booting.

>
>

-- 

Re: Some questions regarding GuixSD

[Ludovic Courtès]

ng0 <ngillmann@runbox.com> skribis:

> 宋文武 <iyzsong@member.fsf.org> writes:
>
>> dian_cecht@zoho.com writes:
>>
>>> On Sat, Oct 01, 2016 at 09:50:11AM +0800, 宋文武 wrote:
>>>> dian_cecht@zoho.com writes:
>>>> 
>>>> On GuixSD, you can rollback the whole system safely and easily (by
>>>> choosing a grub menu item at boot).
>>>
>>> I don't guess you happen to be able to supply me with the options passed to do
>>> this, would you?
>>
>> Ah, that's managed by guix on GuixSD, which produces a grub.cfg with menu
>> containing all systems (current and previous if not deleted explicitly)
>> it ever built.  No option needed.
>>
>>> My systems aren't exactly standard installs, and I don't use
>>> GRUB for anything at the moment (this may or may not change depending on where I
>>> feel Guix fits into my systems, and whether I end up migrating everything over,
>>> or if it's just one computer that has a GuixSD install on it).
>>
>> OK, muli-boot with GuixSD can be done with chainloader, etc. but it's a
>> bit tricky.  You probably want to try it in a VM (eg: guix system vm)
>> first :-)
>
> I think we should add this to the docs, this is a relatively regular
> occuring question, the multi booting.

This has been added recently, after a couple of related bugs were fixed
(info "(guix) GRUB Configuration").

Ludo’.