From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp1 ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms0.migadu.com with LMTPS id sJlPOYZ9aGDVGQAAgWs5BA (envelope-from ) for ; Sat, 03 Apr 2021 16:36:54 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp1 with LMTPS id eIFBM4Z9aGDwOQAAbx9fmQ (envelope-from ) for ; Sat, 03 Apr 2021 14:36:54 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1420A2B50E for ; Sat, 3 Apr 2021 16:36:54 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1]:58562 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lShOP-0002Y7-5x for larch@yhetil.org; Sat, 03 Apr 2021 10:36:53 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:53024) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lShOM-0002Xy-FJ for guix-science@gnu.org; Sat, 03 Apr 2021 10:36:50 -0400 Received: from mail-out-auth2.hosts.co.uk ([212.84.127.1]:57020) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lShOK-0007ZY-NH for guix-science@gnu.org; Sat, 03 Apr 2021 10:36:50 -0400 Received: from maikeh336.claranet.co.uk ([79.123.23.187] helo=pancake.local) by smtp.hosts.co.uk with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim) (envelope-from ) id 1lShOF-0004D6-Ea; Sat, 03 Apr 2021 15:36:43 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: reproducibility of numerical experiments From: Paul Garlick To: Ludovic =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Court=E8s?= Cc: guix-science@gnu.org Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2021 15:36:40 +0100 In-Reply-To: <87mtug203e.fsf@gnu.org> References: <1cb914b16ee0dad6bf5102bb4b66fda3b020dbec.camel@tourbillion-technology.com> <87mtug203e.fsf@gnu.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Mailer: Evolution 3.28.5-0ubuntu0.18.04.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received-SPF: none client-ip=212.84.127.1; envelope-from=pgarlick@tourbillion-technology.com; helo=mail-out-auth2.hosts.co.uk X-Spam_score_int: -25 X-Spam_score: -2.6 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.6 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guix-science@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-science-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-Science" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1617460614; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post; bh=tYSrbFxR+feDNSdrxPIw4DGqvNCXIoBZGg5dUReja4c=; b=AuA5cuKyP4o9+crQ34/IwE/Qsq7+iOpJVpy2Jke3dBy+jTkmitITyPAMZ+SPS2tJZoKg50 5w+WFqCqS6aK/V3y4TxmhiVUyW2CvAS0bvYHVdb4vXu7re72j8YUCLLztJDVpaIYo5vS3C 8093aj3vNmMgEPPbuEeTyGuLv8H+1oZE26numprR5JIclwchZLewne10Oe6A2qQL34HmRO xykc3sC3aJHIfQBemP0PFPae/k1B4YP4imJxOPbwPwscFYCb3QIkhQEkZ0+sgI5jF2Ejlr VJanghrMrDIy+hshWmqDotG6cviLt2HN+PorCpwJE6avFXDB16FetP1JogNFow== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1617460614; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=mrkXe89Z6vCBMtUuZVKDM0ih/3Nj+PIrdxrrMDi4mpKmate3QUrL8lszZ6zxVur5sqFr/7 I5KuhXmKX1b4wW4RCysBkWcZiCMRM33JnWlDgAW5Pgqhzrz2enLbTLMSBcJKYkv4alCa5H 2JO7GMaijzeEJipQKVPmf7qAwPjb5zW+XWsGKCX1WboCyvECG71Y6XPFKZuNIQQRABbNL+ Suxtv0R0eLr6PTXyfXeDQD3DDuWDNueITGRPWH8FZcLGIUAIQhmEAYkIwJyHdezjwt3xLH +OqPZtGJY0gEQc/RKNFcc19DOPt8eeDmsGhHnTgzYWCDH70iiOb2dsHwpyIxkw== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of guix-science-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=guix-science-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -1.93 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of guix-science-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=guix-science-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 1420A2B50E X-Spam-Score: -1.93 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: 3baAPQrT6YKV Hi Ludo, On Fri, 2021-04-02 at 17:11 +0200, Ludovic Courtès wrote: > Nice! What kind of feedback did you get? The feedback was very positive. Owing to the complexity of the software dependencies. many people in the finite element community would like a more dependable method of managing their installations. There were two questions on the day: i) Q: what happens if a repository disappears? Is the environment still reproducible? A: Yes. The Software Heritage Project provides a backup of all Guix packages. This is automatically used as a fallback, if needed. ii) Q: Suppose I am an end user who wishes to include some third-party python package, do I require it to exist as a Guix package to be able to have the "exact" reproducibility you described? A: There is a useful feature that allows a local channel to be defined. One can keep extra packages and one’s own solvers in the local channel. These are not visible in the main Guix repository but have all the same features regarding reproducibility. > Is the FenICS community generally aware of reproducible deployment > issues? Yes, reproducible deployment is seen as desirable, though difficult to achieve with the currently-used tools. Typically model development starts on a local workstation and is scaled-up to an HPC system when needed. Tools such as singularity are often used. However, the local and remote installations may differ and as a consequence applications that run on the local system may not run on the remote system. > It’s great to reach out to the numerical simulation community. > Reproducible deployment and numerical simulation are two links in the > long chain of reproducible science that we have to connect. Sure. My view is that Guix provides the machinery to transform what can be a stop-start mode of numerical model development to something that is more sustainable over time. Best regards, Paul.