From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp2 ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms11 with LMTPS id IAVzHFy6UmDpJwAA0tVLHw (envelope-from ) for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2021 02:26:36 +0000 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp2 with LMTPS id eGYsGFy6UmDdKgAAB5/wlQ (envelope-from ) for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2021 02:26:36 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B80522E725 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2021 03:26:35 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([::1]:36176 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lMiMr-0004lX-Ny for larch@yhetil.org; Wed, 17 Mar 2021 22:26:33 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:50054) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lMiMl-0004lH-Gh for guix-science@gnu.org; Wed, 17 Mar 2021 22:26:27 -0400 Received: from elegua.eauchat.org ([91.224.149.118]:53376 helo=eauchat.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lMiMj-0005aW-BG for guix-science@gnu.org; Wed, 17 Mar 2021 22:26:27 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=eauchat.org; s=mail; t=1616034379; h=from:from:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=lNdNkcKTRubxmgJgZLoLzhXuqD+DWFVS8WazN7lFFfc=; b=hN8fR7bA5PC/IfU0bcSBMD0Pbm5sHRSqUm33zdfvcL4zHR/5pqHOgs8dS/i/X5kpJK11rB S1YZbCUNzKVK6EwjMqXhhoRqBc4CNByZOSGzZJYZVCzRv1gWl1Vo6cVl8dC6SflIMWFwf/ wyJXX60JVj6NFb7Ehn4bJXcd9BWEIWc= References: <878s6pds9t.fsf@eauchat.org> <87zgz3c17o.fsf@eauchat.org> <8735wva2p9.fsf@gnu.org> From: =?utf-8?Q?S=C3=A9bastien?= Lerique To: Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= Cc: zimoun , guix-science@gnu.org Subject: Re: Introducing Guix to HPC at my institution In-reply-to: <8735wva2p9.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2021 11:26:14 +0900 Message-ID: <87r1kdci49.fsf@eauchat.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; 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spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of guix-science-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=guix-science-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -1.30 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=eauchat.org header.s=mail header.b=hN8fR7bA; dmarc=fail reason="SPF not aligned (relaxed)" header.from=eauchat.org (policy=none); spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of guix-science-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=guix-science-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: B80522E725 X-Spam-Score: -1.30 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: N/TToWkhe9jn Hi Ludo, Simon, Thanks for these very interesting stories! That's a lot of=20 resources too, I will be watching some of the talks you linked to=20 over the coming days. I'm currently contacting people who might=20 already feel a strong need for what Guix can offer, to see what=20 would be the best way to introduce the topic to the sysadmins. Who=20 knows, maybe my institution can also support the development of=20 Guix in some way :) Will be back once I have some progress or more questions. Best, S=C3=A9bastien On 16 Mar 2021 at 18:05, Ludovic Court=C3=A8s=20 wrote: > Hi S=C3=A9bastien, > > S=C3=A9bastien Lerique skribis: > >> Another thought: given Ludo's position, I am imagining that=20 >> Inria >> Bordeaux runs Guix on some of their infrastructure, is that the >> case? If so, can you share any details about how that came to=20 >> happen? > > I=E2=80=99ve been working with HPC people at Inria and back then I was=20 > working > on Guix in my spare time. The HPC folks had been using=20 > =E2=80=9Cenvironment > modules=E2=80=9D forever but were looking for a solution that would=20 > provide > automation, primarily, and optionally some kind of=20 > reproducibility. > > They invested into Spack first (actually based on my=20 > recommendation; at > the time I wasn=E2=80=99t sure Guix could meet all their requirements)=20 > and grew > dissatisfied after a couple of years, in particular because > reproducibility became a more important factor for them. It=E2=80=99s=20 > also > about the time when Ricardo and I published > (Ricardo already had=20 > experience > with Guix in HPC and surely has an interesting story to share=20 > :-)). > > We kept discussing these matters, together with sysadmins of the=20 > local > cluster, who were also looking for a solution they could offer=20 > users in > addition to modules. Eventually Guix was installed on that=20 > cluster and > local HPC teams got into it at that point. > > That=E2=80=99s my story! :-) > > It=E2=80=99s hopefully not the end of the story though. There are other > clusters listed at that provide=20 > Guix. > We=E2=80=99re discussing with others in France, but these things take=20 > time=E2=80=A6 > >> Yes I meant that. They run CentOS 8, so convincing them to run=20 >> a build >> daemon will not be as simple as `apt install guix`, but we'll=20 >> see how >> the conversation goes :) > > Tools like modules, Conda, Spack, and =E2=80=9Ccontainers=E2=80=9D (Docke= r,=20 > Singularity) > are quite entrenched now in HPC. All these tools are relatively=20 > new so > proposing yet another tool can be a hard sell. > > Also, cluster sysadmins tend to be conservative and don=E2=80=99t like=20 > the idea > of having a =E2=80=9Cdaemon running as root=E2=80=9D. > > But my impression is that there=E2=80=99s increasing awareness of the > limitations of these tools. It used to be that people would=20 > disagree > when we said in talks that Docker/Singularity images are not > reproducible; now this is more widely understood. Likewise for=20 > the > deployment issues around Jupyter and workflow languages. > > And there=E2=80=99s not a zillion tools out there to address these=20 > issues. :-) > > Good luck with your endeavors! > > Ludo=E2=80=99.