From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp10.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms5.migadu.com with LMTPS id sCJoCynciWPQ9QAAbAwnHQ (envelope-from ) for ; Fri, 02 Dec 2022 12:06:17 +0100 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp10.migadu.com with LMTPS id UEiUCinciWPccgAAG6o9tA (envelope-from ) for ; Fri, 02 Dec 2022 12:06:17 +0100 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D8FA72B20 for ; Fri, 2 Dec 2022 12:06:16 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1p13rn-000455-Jm; Fri, 02 Dec 2022 06:06:03 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1p13rY-0003tw-0R for guix-science@gnu.org; Fri, 02 Dec 2022 06:05:57 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1p13rS-0002OT-FU; Fri, 02 Dec 2022 06:05:42 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-Version:In-Reply-To:Date:References:Subject:To: From; bh=Wt2PsfiU4tTzOxDlm6svwzdFvXxguppDbKKhTjWd8v4=; b=kwJ2OLEIvuZZYxZx0xjO kflJRTOrOgzxEVwyHdlGv0E8i5aOFI87ZoWIuKkXE/w+RrngePCteRX52oynz3ejLvyTE8ib8cQiT fIsOQsz1mcGmZzUOKBH+SdvsJXEKjuSK5OY59Ky17RA8tehooK3BhmmSkyUuXijZJmx3aDviUJjsh 5ruKfC+L0aHI7f7KtjOf8X9grJYpLRVrVgJ+zC3elON6ToJt3J1L+lq10o5wX/cqAUONSdKEd+piP tE1St7g4pUfqtEWigKlh7suB7938nr4W46OhVxpFCcRnYTLqJ5IZVreMHpYHzfxIMhh8PH4xeEb4e 0p5Fl3WJDvfFBg==; Received: from [193.50.110.137] (helo=ribbon) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1p13rS-0001dj-1w; Fri, 02 Dec 2022 06:05:42 -0500 From: =?utf-8?Q?Ludovic_Court=C3=A8s?= To: Hugo Buddelmeijer Cc: Thibault Lestang , Konrad Hinsen , guix-science Subject: Re: Conda environments and reproducibility References: <87pmd7ar8k.fsf@imperial.ac.uk> <87zgcayre2.fsf@imperial.ac.uk> X-URL: http://www.fdn.fr/~lcourtes/ X-Revolutionary-Date: Duodi 12 Frimaire an 231 de la =?utf-8?Q?R=C3=A9volu?= =?utf-8?Q?tion=2C?= jour du Raifort X-PGP-Key-ID: 0x090B11993D9AEBB5 X-PGP-Key: http://www.fdn.fr/~lcourtes/ludovic.asc X-PGP-Fingerprint: 3CE4 6455 8A84 FDC6 9DB4 0CFB 090B 1199 3D9A EBB5 X-OS: x86_64-pc-linux-gnu Date: Fri, 02 Dec 2022 12:05:40 +0100 In-Reply-To: (Hugo Buddelmeijer's message of "Tue, 29 Nov 2022 14:12:55 +0100") Message-ID: <87k03at69n.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.2 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-BeenThere: guix-science@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-science-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: guix-science-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Country: US ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1669979176; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=Wt2PsfiU4tTzOxDlm6svwzdFvXxguppDbKKhTjWd8v4=; b=ZiIXxowa0V48SZbVusjvuUrQnw0IHpbz9imL+nDKgYe1eCRSiT+2YDBq3MuB1G2wadQTgd xmlxveZNIzV1jJmQImE8Ozp5QUxWbB6sz642sZzVV2dM+mnnyQi9IGBRAjUW+UtqI84m6P GXCTbiFE+d0IdPcnXrBG+oivYp1lo73qKXLi7QCkRmW8eVcNJ94gxlQ0uqrtViUaNM3HHe 5mtdtTvgOBUyzEgztleegWG6f/+4twu2aPHHnXx7kTC5ZHLM+Og4YCpGlfNW7dIjUB+4uM PluUu//+yXazG5pvn1WxCMMAgBMJtiy99trw/Zy5Yp/uQwuoYilpQny0iCtQmw== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1669979176; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=ZmUIUC2kO0HJLgPvnFDlgTra9fqhD1Pfebqri/LhIhxZTfUE3/NlpD5hihnq4LCVuIVA9e khbDi9pNJzvIpAS530vJn1VVS+J2gG0oMcLguv8Wn2emf00qPsTquuVCRfPSUM5SrhUl+K mDHW2GIZyJdrciXQm/phmVm6alj6sFVBfjFVXXMhPtVoIdRHHtDcwpG87NwYTxIQvj8qDS ++c7oxrFMidrnV9C8Gx+VGtTVEXTvq8DnfbPY4lgWxUoVWX+A9WPpq7LMgW6n9bHiZgGP4 rm3xG6t7b4ARg8ERj5HiFzN9HrGfU4wLRbZQ0zpKzIcyVYGNCJKX8nMVH8aSGg== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gnu.org header.s=fencepost-gnu-org header.b=kwJ2OLEI; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gnu.org; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-science-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-science-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -3.67 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gnu.org header.s=fencepost-gnu-org header.b=kwJ2OLEI; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gnu.org; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-science-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-science-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Queue-Id: D8FA72B20 X-Spam-Score: -3.67 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn1.migadu.com X-TUID: ZwlvFmY4G4FO Hi, I read this thread with interest=E2=80=94great to have first-hand feedback = from Conda users and packagers who also understand Guix! Hugo Buddelmeijer skribis: > That is, "conda env export" should contain entries like > "scipy=3D1.8.0=3Dpy39hee8e79c_1", where the hee8e79c should uniquely defi= ne the > dependencies 'that matter', like which compiler is used. What goes into t= he > hash seems rather complicated, and grows over time. I think one source of many problems here is to think that there are dependencies that do not matter. Another one, which those hashes appear to address, is to think that a name/version pair is enough to unambiguously designate a software artifact. This hash is a hash of the build result, not a hash of the input, is that correct? I think it would be great to have a blog post that walks through shortcomings and concrete issues one may encounter when trying to reproduce a software environment with Conda, contrasting it with how Guix does thing. This would probably make more sense for people who use Conda everyday than a high-level overview of Guix. Thanks, Ludo=E2=80=99.