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16 Mar 2021 10:05:22 +0100 From: =?utf-8?Q?Ludovic_Court=C3=A8s?= To: =?utf-8?Q?S=C3=A9bastien?= Lerique Cc: zimoun , guix-science@gnu.org Subject: Re: Introducing Guix to HPC at my institution References: <878s6pds9t.fsf@eauchat.org> <87zgz3c17o.fsf@eauchat.org> X-URL: http://www.fdn.fr/~lcourtes/ X-Revolutionary-Date: 26 =?utf-8?Q?Vent=C3=B4se?= an 229 de la =?utf-8?Q?R?= =?utf-8?Q?=C3=A9volution?= X-PGP-Key-ID: 0x090B11993D9AEBB5 X-PGP-Key: http://www.fdn.fr/~lcourtes/ludovic.asc X-PGP-Fingerprint: 3CE4 6455 8A84 FDC6 9DB4 0CFB 090B 1199 3D9A EBB5 X-OS: x86_64-pc-linux-gnu Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2021 10:05:22 +0100 In-Reply-To: <87zgz3c17o.fsf@eauchat.org> (=?utf-8?Q?=22S=C3=A9bastien?= Lerique"'s message of "Tue, 16 Mar 2021 10:54:35 +0900") Message-ID: <8735wva2p9.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.1 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Received-SPF: pass client-ip=192.134.164.83; envelope-from=ludovic.courtes@inria.fr; helo=mail2-relais-roc.national.inria.fr X-Spam_score_int: -41 X-Spam_score: -4.2 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.2 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guix-science@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-science-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-Science" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1615885536; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post; bh=us0aEjpUJvNMkPJDFo1Plk0mCkORKoETe5wsf88Wdks=; 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dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx2.migadu.com: domain of guix-science-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=guix-science-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 51AA39591 X-Spam-Score: -2.40 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: FlCuFtm+4aEj Hi S=C3=A9bastien, S=C3=A9bastien Lerique skribis: > Another thought: given Ludo's position, I am imagining that Inria > Bordeaux runs Guix on some of their infrastructure, is that the=20 > case? If so, can you share any details about how that came to happen? I=E2=80=99ve been working with HPC people at Inria and back then I was work= ing on Guix in my spare time. The HPC folks had been using =E2=80=9Cenvironment modules=E2=80=9D forever but were looking for a solution that would provide automation, primarily, and optionally some kind of reproducibility. They invested into Spack first (actually based on my recommendation; at the time I wasn=E2=80=99t sure Guix could meet all their requirements) and = grew dissatisfied after a couple of years, in particular because reproducibility became a more important factor for them. It=E2=80=99s also about the time when Ricardo and I published (Ricardo already had experience with Guix in HPC and surely has an interesting story to share :-)). We kept discussing these matters, together with sysadmins of the local cluster, who were also looking for a solution they could offer users in addition to modules. Eventually Guix was installed on that cluster and local HPC teams got into it at that point. That=E2=80=99s my story! :-) It=E2=80=99s hopefully not the end of the story though. There are other clusters listed at that provide Guix. We=E2=80=99re discussing with others in France, but these things take time= =E2=80=A6 > Yes I meant that. They run CentOS 8, so convincing them to run a build > daemon will not be as simple as `apt install guix`, but we'll see how > the conversation goes :) Tools like modules, Conda, Spack, and =E2=80=9Ccontainers=E2=80=9D (Docker,= Singularity) are quite entrenched now in HPC. All these tools are relatively new so proposing yet another tool can be a hard sell. Also, cluster sysadmins tend to be conservative and don=E2=80=99t like the = idea of having a =E2=80=9Cdaemon running as root=E2=80=9D. But my impression is that there=E2=80=99s increasing awareness of the limitations of these tools. It used to be that people would disagree when we said in talks that Docker/Singularity images are not reproducible; now this is more widely understood. Likewise for the deployment issues around Jupyter and workflow languages. And there=E2=80=99s not a zillion tools out there to address these issues. = :-) Good luck with your endeavors! Ludo=E2=80=99.