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Tue, 16 Mar 2021 01:14:53 -0700 (PDT) From: zimoun To: =?utf-8?Q?S=C3=A9bastien?= Lerique Cc: guix-science@gnu.org Subject: Re: Introducing Guix to HPC at my institution In-Reply-To: <87zgz3c17o.fsf@eauchat.org> References: <878s6pds9t.fsf@eauchat.org> <87zgz3c17o.fsf@eauchat.org> Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2021 09:06:47 +0100 Message-ID: <86mtv3jze0.fsf@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::335; envelope-from=zimon.toutoune@gmail.com; helo=mail-wm1-x335.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guix-science@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-science-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-Science" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; 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aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=sECuV0wB; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of guix-science-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=guix-science-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -3.10 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=sECuV0wB; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of guix-science-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=guix-science-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 613C3E500 X-Spam-Score: -3.10 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: 4UVIgspMz14R Hi S=C3=A1bastien, On Tue, 16 Mar 2021 at 10:54, S=C3=A9bastien Lerique wrote: > On 15 Mar 2021 at 22:47, zimoun wrote: > I am French, I'll be very happy to attend if I can! I live in > Japan now though, so I guess I'll miss parts. Are you planning to > record the workshop? Cool! If I remember correctly, there is some Japaneses=E2=80=99s users. D= o not hesitate to roam on #guix (irc.freenode.net) or drop an email to help-guix. :-) We have not discussed the record of the workshop yet. Keep you in touch. Well, I do not know if it is visible all around the world, here some materials:=20 If I may, I would recommend the Konrad=E2=80=99s talk because it explains w= hy reproducibility matters for scientific reproducibility. The next talk by Ludo provides good connections with these principles and how to do in practise. I also recommend the 2 last talks by Francois Ru=C3=A9 et Florent Pruvost. Other materials are worth to watch when speaking about reproducibility, for sure, but they are not with a Guix angle. Last, I did not run the =C2=ABTPs=C2=BB so I cannot tell more. Ludo=E2=80=99s did a nice talk at FOSDEM 2019 about distro: well, he presents some arguments why and how Guix addresses the challenge. Moreover, here you can find some raw materials used in various talks. Especially one at CERN in 2018 for instance: > Another thought: given Ludo's position, I am imagining that Inria > Bordeaux runs Guix on some of their infrastructure, is that the > case? If so, can you share any details about how that came to > happen? I cannot share how it runs at INRIA Bordeaux since I am far from my beloved South West. :-) Well, some words how it runs at my place in a small team of a Research Institute doing stuff in the biomedical field. First, I am trained in apply maths and I studied wave propagation (numerical methods, linear solver, etc.). At the time, I am using mainly Conda and some modulefiles prepared by the cluster=E2=80=99s team of= the different institutes I were. Then, I traveled back to home and found a permanent position in this Institute. And I deal with Biologists with few skills on how to run their computations. I inherited a small cluster and couple of strong desktop machines with an history. Therefore, at the beginning, I was doing the modulefiles by hand=E2=80=A6 then I said stop! It does not scale since I am alone and I felt as reinventing the wheel: repackaging everything by hand. Conda is still an option but Conda is doing wrong at different levels. I was following Guix, as the Emacs of distro. :-) And on Dec. 2018, Ludo organized a day in Paris and I attended. Then I installed Guix at work on my main desktop and another remote strong desktop. I teach Guix to the new users and almost support only Guix. But you know how people have their habits. :-) One and half year later (2020 is off, since I was recovering from a sport=E2=80=99s injury), I convinced people to switch to = Guix and I am in the process to reinstall the small cluster (for historical reasons, LTS and never upgraded with too old kernel and now impossible to upgrade =E2=80=9Cfor free=E2=80=9D, whatever!). On strong desktops (256G of RAM, 64 cores) running a classic distro as Ubuntu or Debian, installing Guix on the top is straightforward. I do as much as I can on the machines I am in charge. Why Guix? Beyond reproducibility, it is easy to have R packages via =E2=80=9Cguix import=E2=80=9D, for instance. For the record, a Medical Doc= tor is writing their own packages. Well, people are less waiting after me and they install the packages they need. Guix works from laptop to cluster, the surprises are really mitigated compared to the other tools I know. Last, for users a bit afraid by the command line, I pack a Docker image all included for them. Now a lot of journals ask code and data and I would like to convince people in my Institute that channels.scm+manifest.scm capture and Docker is just the container, easy to move from one place to another; it has not happened yet. That=E2=80=99s= why I investigated in things like: Last, Guix is a Scheme library. Aside the parenthesis which is just not an issue for a good editor, being Lisp allows to easily hack in. Once one is a bit familiar with a Lisp (Emacs Lisp, Racket, Common Lisp, whatever, not necessary Guile) by running a tutorial, it is relatively easy to read the code and understand which part does what. For instance, my first contribution after the usual packaging is fixing a minor bug in the relevance scoring function. I never understood Conda enough to be able to fix any annoyance that I had. > Yes I meant that. They run CentOS 8, so convincing them to run a > build daemon will not be as simple as `apt install guix`, but > we'll see how the conversation goes :) Good luck! Please report their feedback if they are not convinced. > I'll write back here in a few days once I've thought about how to > present things to the sysadmins. In the meantime, any feedback on > past experience is very welcome! I guess you already know the section =C2=ABClusters Deployment=C2=BB: Cheers, simon