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Wed, 22 Sep 2021 12:46:26 -0700 (PDT) From: zimoun To: Katherine Cox-Buday , Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Cou?= =?utf-8?Q?rt=C3=A8s?= Cc: guix-devel@gnu.org, guix-science@gnu.org Subject: Re: =?utf-8?B?4oCcV2hhdOKAmXM=?= in a =?utf-8?Q?package=E2=80=9D?= In-Reply-To: <875yutwuij.fsf@gmail.com> References: <87wnnbpgnp.fsf@inria.fr> <875yutwuij.fsf@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2021 21:44:02 +0200 Message-ID: <86h7ec75vh.fsf@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::42c; envelope-from=zimon.toutoune@gmail.com; helo=mail-wr1-x42c.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guix-science@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-science-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-Science" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; 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aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b=InoJMzoR; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of guix-science-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=guix-science-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -3.09 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b=InoJMzoR; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of guix-science-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=guix-science-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 0E54B1F365 X-Spam-Score: -3.09 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: B0ZYcj+VrQwr Hi, On Tue, 21 Sep 2021 at 15:20, Katherine Cox-Buday wrote: > I.e., > when trying to achieve a goal, it is a pain to package things that > aren't yet packaged, but what I get in return are sane environments, > deployments, and meta-data about all of these. I concur! :-) > This is perhaps a rehash of the "worse is better"[2] conversation, but > I often struggle with deciding whether to do things the "fast" way, or > the "correct" way. I think when your path is clear, the correct way > will get you farther, faster. But when you're doing experiments, or > exploratory programming, being bogged down with the "correct" way of > doing things (i.e. Guix packages) might take a lot of time for no > benefit. E.g. maybe you end up packaging a cluster of things that you > find out don't work out for you. Of course the challenge is: if you > choose the fast way, and it works out, do you got back to do it the > correct way so that you're on sound footing? > > Bringing this back to Guix, and maybe the GNU philosophy, it has been > very helpful for me to be able to leverage the flexibility of Guix to > occasionally do things the "fast" way, perhaps by packaging a > binary. Paradoxically, it has allowed me to stay within the Guix and > free software ecosystem. In my opinion, flexibility is key to growing > the ecosystem and community, and I would encourage Guix as a project > to take every opportunity to give the user options. Long time ago, I watched this badly recorded video [1] about =E2=80=9CHaske= ll is useless=E2=80=9D. I reframe for packages the exposed double-axis: useful | trad-pkg ~~> Nirvana | ^ | | Guix useless |=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 ----------------------- unsafe safe where =E2=80=99unsafe=E2=80=99 vs =E2=80=99safe=E2=80=99 could read =E2=80= =99fast=E2=80=99 vs =E2=80=99robust=E2=80=99; and trad-pkg reads apt, conda, spack, yum, etc. 1: Cheers, simon