Ludovic Courtès schreef op di 19-04-2022 om 11:17 [+0200]:
> If you follow the logic, breaking up import cycles would mean, in the
> end, having one file per package.

Not necessarily, (gnu packages minetest) has multiple packages
(minetest and some of its mods) but it doesn't cause any cycles (no
other module, except sort-of (guix build-system minetest), imports it.)

That one appears to be, at least currently, a bit of a special case
though.

> But would that be enough?  Probably not, because low-level packages
> are bound to depend on high-level packages—e.g., glibc depends on
> Python, some other low-level tool might depend on Pandoc (GHC),
> librsvg depends on Rust, and so on.
>
> IOW, since the graph of build dependency really is a graph, and not a
> tree, there’ll always be import cycles.

The graph of build dependencies (in terms of derivations) is a tree,
the build daemon doesn't allow cyclic derivations.  So I think that by
letting the module graph be a coarser version of the derivation graph
but still a tree (except for the bootstrap packages gcc, sed, ... whose
modules may import each other).

> (guix self), the module that ‘guix pull’ uses, already automatically
> splits package modules into two groups.  It’s not as modular as we’d
> like, but it’s a start.  What would be useful is to come up with metrics
> and tools to reduce the closure of the “guix-packages-base” group.
> 
> WDYT?

Maybe:

  a tool that determines a minimal set of (importing module ->
  imported module tuples) that needs to be lazified to reduce the
  closure size (in number of modules) in guix-packages-base by N

and:

  extend "guix style" to perform these changes

Maybe the ‘number of imports lazified -> number of modules in guix-
packages-base’ function has some sweet spot somewhere.

I think it would be easier though to work our way up before going to
"guix pull" -- first "hello", then "util-linux, then "guile-avahi",
then "guile-ssh", then "sqlite" ... and only eventually guix itself.

Also, even if the closure of "guix-packages-base" cannot be reduced,
making it (mostly) a tree would allow splitting the group into multiple
parts (see ‘Faster "guix pull" by incremental compilation and non-
circular modules?’).

Alternative:

  * make _all_ package module imports lazy -- #:autoload everything!

    guix-packages-base might then need to be set manually though ...

Greetings,
Maxime.