From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp0 ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms11 with LMTPS id CEGSOONdH1+cLQAA0tVLHw (envelope-from ) for ; Mon, 27 Jul 2020 23:06:11 +0000 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp0 with LMTPS id YHdnNONdH1/zTAAA1q6Kng (envelope-from ) for ; Mon, 27 Jul 2020 23:06:11 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1183294050A for ; Mon, 27 Jul 2020 23:06:11 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost ([::1]:56360 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1k0CC8-0003yc-Ay for larch@yhetil.org; Mon, 27 Jul 2020 19:06:08 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:60430) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1k0CC2-0003yR-LT for guix-patches@gnu.org; Mon, 27 Jul 2020 19:06:02 -0400 Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:44464) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1k0CC2-0004GP-Ci for guix-patches@gnu.org; Mon, 27 Jul 2020 19:06:02 -0400 Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k0CC2-00066f-7f for guix-patches@gnu.org; Mon, 27 Jul 2020 19:06:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: [bug#42456] [PATCH] gnu: Rename python-hy to hy. Resent-From: Jesse Gibbons Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: guix-patches@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2020 23:06:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 42456 X-GNU-PR-Package: guix-patches X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch To: zimoun Cc: 42456@debbugs.gnu.org, Brett Gilio Received: via spool by 42456-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B42456.159589115523459 (code B ref 42456); Mon, 27 Jul 2020 23:06:02 +0000 Received: (at 42456) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Jul 2020 23:05:55 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56010 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k0CBv-00066J-AA for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 27 Jul 2020 19:05:55 -0400 Received: from mail-pg1-f193.google.com ([209.85.215.193]:38579) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k0CBu-000664-7N for 42456@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 27 Jul 2020 19:05:54 -0400 Received: by mail-pg1-f193.google.com with SMTP id e8so10798887pgc.5 for <42456@debbugs.gnu.org>; Mon, 27 Jul 2020 16:05:54 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding:content-language; bh=GgcSQTke3gSXAkIAk2VIztQgraRlmB1YRemxS+bS0o8=; b=oZjhyZMzXPJLnQjuZ2t6C6HkbJmOk9roF+xGH7pNVp6/sRiFL9JoThupu7Ogaf7XIh 99pt2y7xaPRmuSJilWDcrRQc3yxtiWr5xOpWTX+rRPUhtnK4CWzC32q+5wt7Kfi/WLpF AyTgtwbW89fVS4EJfLJCWvqLDWww6PgLBTvLGcldobBJfYuwL6C2OkQ1FYzTQqhCOMcI 5mzTymRi0b4NdFtog3XPW7j6tz+Pq1z8Dez8Pb8TLKLbbJ8gyMP05qJ5lI6Usz8t6f8V s3Deefo0VbCdJsizVuYHg8UzvUK0/Q6eywtahz0DMjIurTcpq/t6FlZODZFicqvChcKr uxbA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding :content-language; bh=GgcSQTke3gSXAkIAk2VIztQgraRlmB1YRemxS+bS0o8=; b=PQaPDBa2APetPkNK2T7Gp9GqgNFsdclGfOUqPLwFfp36jOnBFpAlRJeu0n+Oh1sITm Dgqmyq9T/SJXB0EPKuQRrhl5YlLYwXdoOCV0//Y0znpF8AxQMLxRMXeyuSRmyQBq1gHM SbWNjsyRED+80EENkV1bsH6HA/raULt5YZlb4dkoSrsq9nLn1dJ6Rq7ZLuoKObVM7Olc jUuDh3z+vLiqA0EcAOibVXQ30G9SsgadDJBlwcNbdZuCCy3fuc1Om5p1Vk9jdt16EHjI 6+wDJxWVqZ4FOTFwL+FQ4jtV4p2OEh6osDak66X2WW8BYwipu0d5/6rFgP+0h6IE8acW iGlQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530+Su8GITghaOTdbbCUxGs77NNkQjFHmAcw2XSP6L0eJkczqPlR WFhELEzGR+Rz1d2u07CPZ1YBkEum X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwLaApPuuxReNUZp2iKkYmQGG1CfBMHEgStub7Vo9tHpy7DjUKXWC0348TeiqCx3cPpZDTISg== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6a00:2257:: with SMTP id i23mr21285045pfu.25.1595891147565; Mon, 27 Jul 2020 16:05:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.25] ([38.141.58.134]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id a3sm16204379pgd.73.2020.07.27.16.05.45 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 27 Jul 2020 16:05:46 -0700 (PDT) References: <1dc02d59-c67b-2002-6a99-ceb0cdc24645@gmail.com> <87a6zo5rdq.fsf@gnu.org> <08f72489-fb0b-c367-ff9e-6cb3beb4e127@gmail.com> From: Jesse Gibbons Message-ID: Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2020 17:05:43 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Icedove/68.10.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-US X-Spam-Score: -0.6 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-Spam-Score: -1.6 (-) X-BeenThere: guix-patches@gnu.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-patches-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-patches" X-Scanner: scn0 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=fail (rsa verify failed) header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=oZjhyZMz; dmarc=fail reason="SPF not aligned (relaxed)" header.from=gmail.com (policy=none); spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of guix-patches-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=guix-patches-bounces@gnu.org X-Spam-Score: 0.09 X-TUID: G3nTqCwPLBsY It seems you understand a lot more about Hy than I do (I've never actually built a Hy app in my life, and I despise python (hence the interest in Hy)), so I have some questions. I'm trying to clear up some of my confusion. On 7/27/20 8:40 AM, zimoun wrote: > Hy uses the Python VM. Basically, the Hy Lisp is transformed into an > AST (from ast import *) i.e. Python internals then evaluated using the > Python VM (CPython or PyPy). > Other said, any Hy code compiles to Python (and vice versa :-)). What about Hy macros? According to https://docs.hylang.org/en/stable/language/api.html#require they make no changes to the program when imported with require. If I write a Hy library with nothing but useful macros, will python be able to use that? When I call Hy2py on a Hy file with nothing but the sample macro at https://docs.hylang.org/en/stable/language/api.html#defmacro it gives an error. Is this expected, or is this a guix-related bug? If this is expected, then I think Hy macros are significantly more useful to Hy than to python without the ast library, and if you want to use Hy macros for parts of a python app you might as well use Hy. > I do not think it makes sense having 'hy-build-system' because Hy uses > all the Python machinery, not to say Hy is simply Python with > parenthensis. ;-) As I mentioned, hy-build-system would just make things a little more convenient. Programs written even partially in Hy will require the Hy package, but I wouldn't bother hacking a new build system together unless there are other things required for all Hy packages. Do such things exist? If not, I will let it go. > Other said, Python code can import Hy code, and vice versa, and not > because there is "bindings" but because it is the same AST > representation. > > Last, I am not convinced that Hy deserves a rename since it is another > Python flavor. Well, similarly than python-on-guile which is in > gnu/packages/guile-xyz.scm > > > Cheers, > simon Similar things can be said of Clojure. Clojure is compiled into Java bytecode, then run on the Java VM. Java programs can run Clojure code, and vice versa. And just like Clojure and Java, Hy and Python have very different grammar and are therefore not the same language. Yet Clojure is not packaged as java-clojure. Though inconsistencies in naming conventions tend to bother me, I personally am indifferent about what Hy is named. As the saying goes, "A cactus by any other name would pop all the balloons you throw at it that don't completely miss it." (Or something like that.) I only submitted the patch because I had renamed python-hy to hy in my personal channel a while ago, and the people on the IRC suggested I should send the change as a patch when I mentioned it there recently. So if my patch is accepted is up to those who are more familiar with Hy and Guix than I am. I think the only time it will matter to me is if I am the first to submit a package that requires Hy, since such a package will be written for my channel and my channel won't be adjusted by then to build a package dependent on hy.