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spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of guix-patches-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=guix-patches-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 03152C7A6 X-Spam-Score: -2.22 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn1.migadu.com X-TUID: yg0eARrrIqoP This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) -----------------------85019a5640c220b9a6f1267610b0264e Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---------------------f99038af3d15e48e23275bb66c7334e1" -----------------------f99038af3d15e48e23275bb66c7334e1 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="---------------------d00891a35c944ca9a21368e37285a327" -----------------------d00891a35c944ca9a21368e37285a327 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi leo. As mentioned previously, I do find this useful, I'm using it curren= tly in LD\_PRELOAD for a nonfree package that requires systemd and does not= function with elogind patched in instead. Other usecases exist but they're= just speculation so far, though the package is otherwise fully functional. \-------- Original Message -------- On 13 Jun 2021, 19:14, Leo Famulari < leo@famulari.name> wrote: > > > > On Sun, Jun 13, 2021 at 11:36:14AM +0200, Ludovic Court=C3=A8s wrote: > > Efraim Flashner skribis: > > > I'd also argue that some of the bioinformatics packages are high > > > maintenance and no one likes having to update them. > > > > I agree with the two of you. What I=E2=80=99m saying is that if in addi= tion of > > having a high maintenance cost, it=E2=80=99s pretty much unusable, then= that=E2=80=99s > > not good. > > I share Efraim's point =E2=80=94 maintenance burden has never been a prim= ary > reason to exclude things from Guix. I think it's important to handle > this patch in a manner that is consistent with the precedent set by > years of Guix code review. > > I'm sorry, I haven't read this entire discussion closely. Tony, does > this package seem useful for you? > > There is a weird gamergate-esque faction in the free software community > who hate systemd for reasons that are basically inexplicable. It seems > to be one of several proxy battles fought by a far-right \[0\] political > camp in a struggle over the direction of free software (I'm not sure > \*who\* they are fighting... most distros just ignore them). We should > recognize their longwinded sophistry for what it is. Systemd works and > it works very well. > > Maybe we \*should\* start rejecting very high-maintenance contributions i= f > we do not think they will be maintained adequately. But, I do not think > that systemd should be the package that spurs that decision, because of > the special importance that some people have placed on systemd, which > has nothing to do with software, either technically or in terms of > software freedom. > > > Oh you=E2=80=99re saying that someone on a foreign distro might be inte= rested in > > running =E2=80=98systemctl=E2=80=99 from Guix=E2=80=99 =E2=80=98systemd= =E2=80=99 package? That sounds like a > > bit far-fetched to me, dunno. > > I use systemd extensively with Guix-on-Debian, and it's one component > that I will probably not replace with a Guix package. It's too deeply > integrated within Debian for me to feel confident replacing it, although > perhaps systemctl will work fine when provided by a 3rd party. I really > don't know. > > The benefits of Guix on other distros =E2=80=94 the strong control over t= he > dependency graph and ability to modify it and roll it back =E2=80=94 do n= ot hold > for systemd, in my opinion. Debian's operating system integration and QA > process is good, at this level of the system. > > \[0\] I know that's a gross generalization, but it just seems that way to > me > -----------------------d00891a35c944ca9a21368e37285a327 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="---------------------90cb031f8d0bd1f2c1744e2d90e18a32" -----------------------90cb031f8d0bd1f2c1744e2d90e18a32 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SGkgbGVvLiBBcyBtZW50aW9uZWQgcHJldmlvdXNseSwgSSBkbyBmaW5kIHRoaXMgdXNlZnVsLCBJ J20gdXNpbmcgaXQgY3VycmVudGx5IGluIExEX1BSRUxPQUQgZm9yIGEgbm9uZnJlZSBwYWNrYWdl IHRoYXQgcmVxdWlyZXMgc3lzdGVtZCBhbmQgZG9lcyBub3QgZnVuY3Rpb24gd2l0aCBlbG9naW5k IHBhdGNoZWQgaW4gaW5zdGVhZC4gT3RoZXIgdXNlY2FzZXMgZXhpc3QgYnV0IHRoZXkncmUganVz dCBzcGVjdWxhdGlvbiBzbyBmYXIsIHRob3VnaCB0aGUgcGFja2FnZSBpcyBvdGhlcndpc2UgZnVs bHkgZnVuY3Rpb25hbC48YnI+LS0tLS0tLS0gT3JpZ2luYWwgTWVzc2FnZSAtLS0tLS0tLTxicj5P biAxMyBKdW4gMjAyMSwgMTk6MTQsIExlbyBGYW11bGFyaSA8IGxlb0BmYW11bGFyaS5uYW1lPiB3 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