From: Tony O <me@fron.io>
To: leo@famulari.name, ludo@gnu.org
Cc: leo.prikler@student.tugraz.at, 48924@debbugs.gnu.org,
efraim@flashner.co.il
Subject: [bug#48924] Add systemd
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2021 18:54:01 +0000 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <Qgzo1on2NZiWvZk_r8asfneqqAWJwn8LLydDNPQfV_zVTuw9mBiCQG2oEbaTDOhEa3cKEklNRcU2N7agPPznZg==@fron.io> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <YMZLEDYuMSZwxfzP@jasmine.lan>
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Hi leo. As mentioned previously, I do find this useful, I'm using it currently in LD\_PRELOAD for a nonfree package that requires systemd and does not function with elogind patched in instead. Other usecases exist but they're just speculation so far, though the package is otherwise fully functional.
\-------- Original Message --------
On 13 Jun 2021, 19:14, Leo Famulari < leo@famulari.name> wrote:
>
>
>
> On Sun, Jun 13, 2021 at 11:36:14AM +0200, Ludovic Courtès wrote:
> > Efraim Flashner <efraim@flashner.co.il> skribis:
> > > I'd also argue that some of the bioinformatics packages are high
> > > maintenance and no one likes having to update them.
> >
> > I agree with the two of you. What I’m saying is that if in addition of
> > having a high maintenance cost, it’s pretty much unusable, then that’s
> > not good.
>
> I share Efraim's point — maintenance burden has never been a primary
> reason to exclude things from Guix. I think it's important to handle
> this patch in a manner that is consistent with the precedent set by
> years of Guix code review.
>
> I'm sorry, I haven't read this entire discussion closely. Tony, does
> this package seem useful for you?
>
> There is a weird gamergate-esque faction in the free software community
> who hate systemd for reasons that are basically inexplicable. It seems
> to be one of several proxy battles fought by a far-right \[0\] political
> camp in a struggle over the direction of free software (I'm not sure
> \*who\* they are fighting... most distros just ignore them). We should
> recognize their longwinded sophistry for what it is. Systemd works and
> it works very well.
>
> Maybe we \*should\* start rejecting very high-maintenance contributions if
> we do not think they will be maintained adequately. But, I do not think
> that systemd should be the package that spurs that decision, because of
> the special importance that some people have placed on systemd, which
> has nothing to do with software, either technically or in terms of
> software freedom.
>
> > Oh you’re saying that someone on a foreign distro might be interested in
> > running ‘systemctl’ from Guix’ ‘systemd’ package? That sounds like a
> > bit far-fetched to me, dunno.
>
> I use systemd extensively with Guix-on-Debian, and it's one component
> that I will probably not replace with a Guix package. It's too deeply
> integrated within Debian for me to feel confident replacing it, although
> perhaps systemctl will work fine when provided by a 3rd party. I really
> don't know.
>
> The benefits of Guix on other distros — the strong control over the
> dependency graph and ability to modify it and roll it back — do not hold
> for systemd, in my opinion. Debian's operating system integration and QA
> process is good, at this level of the system.
>
> \[0\] I know that's a gross generalization, but it just seems that way to
> me
>
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next prev parent reply other threads:[~2021-06-13 18:55 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 23+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2021-06-08 16:19 [bug#48924] Add systemd Tony O
2021-06-09 17:42 ` Ludovic Courtès
2021-06-09 18:08 ` Tony O
2021-06-09 20:25 ` Ludovic Courtès
2021-06-09 20:31 ` Tony O
2021-06-09 22:33 ` Leo Prikler
2021-06-11 16:39 ` Ludovic Courtès
2021-06-11 17:11 ` Leo Prikler
2021-06-13 7:31 ` Efraim Flashner
2021-06-13 9:36 ` Ludovic Courtès
2021-06-13 12:19 ` Efraim Flashner
2021-06-13 18:14 ` Leo Famulari
2021-06-13 18:54 ` Tony O [this message]
2021-06-13 19:00 ` Leo Prikler
2021-06-13 19:56 ` Tony O
2021-06-13 21:44 ` Leo Prikler
2021-06-13 22:35 ` Leo Famulari
2021-06-14 12:30 ` Ludovic Courtès
2021-06-14 15:25 ` Leo Famulari
2021-06-15 9:38 ` Ludovic Courtès
2021-06-15 13:40 ` Leo Famulari
2021-06-15 6:35 ` Efraim Flashner
2021-06-15 9:29 ` Ludovic Courtès
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