From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp0 ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms0.migadu.com with LMTPS id RlrxEedBwWBrWgEAgWs5BA (envelope-from ) for ; Thu, 10 Jun 2021 00:34:15 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp0 with LMTPS id oLlsDOdBwWBxJwAA1q6Kng (envelope-from ) for ; Wed, 09 Jun 2021 22:34:15 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B4DD61762B for ; Thu, 10 Jun 2021 00:34:10 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1]:35624 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lr6m1-00019s-6f for larch@yhetil.org; Wed, 09 Jun 2021 18:34:09 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:40880) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lr6lu-00019R-6i for guix-patches@gnu.org; Wed, 09 Jun 2021 18:34:02 -0400 Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:51528) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lr6lt-00079B-SZ for guix-patches@gnu.org; Wed, 09 Jun 2021 18:34:01 -0400 Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lr6lt-0006xd-MI for guix-patches@gnu.org; Wed, 09 Jun 2021 18:34:01 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: [bug#48924] Add systemd Resent-From: Leo Prikler Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: guix-patches@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2021 22:34:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 48924 X-GNU-PR-Package: guix-patches X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Tony O , ludo@gnu.org Cc: 48924@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 48924-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B48924.162327801726710 (code B ref 48924); Wed, 09 Jun 2021 22:34:01 +0000 Received: (at 48924) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Jun 2021 22:33:37 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34841 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lr6lU-0006wk-TN for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 09 Jun 2021 18:33:37 -0400 Received: from mailrelay.tugraz.at ([129.27.2.202]:47030) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lr6lS-0006wZ-34 for 48924@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 09 Jun 2021 18:33:35 -0400 Received: from [10.0.0.4] (62-116-34-49.adsl.highway.telekom.at [62.116.34.49]) by mailrelay.tugraz.at (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4G0hhn6PyHz1DH90; Thu, 10 Jun 2021 00:33:29 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 mailrelay.tugraz.at 4G0hhn6PyHz1DH90 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=tugraz.at; s=mailrelay; t=1623278010; bh=wQTBF2afvz81QjjGy/dLGfmpXBJDEp9Dvi84ArLcXMM=; h=Subject:From:To:Cc:Date:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=MIK7uwJXjAYGgo4l9TX5LRagu699iGldf0sSRDbsetiLpb5ltuFrTZZTZNbRy4HMq wrbg5GY6F0oTQER5ZCVuN9S+uw/Rik0ChrDruxv9qR1RRDbcjkHpJl81k92u5UPIqW pE6uwgklgo4rd7ejOf2b5i7Dv4np1bCAUlnRs3gw= Message-ID: <8c9f7f3961274fd2fef3b715a0ff8b21026bb283.camel@student.tugraz.at> From: Leo Prikler Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2021 00:33:03 +0200 In-Reply-To: References: <87wnr3aqa6.fsf@gnu.org> <87sg1qbxb0.fsf_-_@gnu.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" User-Agent: Evolution 3.34.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-TUG-Backscatter-control: bt4lQm5Tva3SBgCuw0EnZw X-Spam-Scanner: SpamAssassin 3.003001 X-Spam-Score-relay: -1.9 X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.74 on 129.27.10.116 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: guix-patches@gnu.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-patches-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-patches" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1623278051; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding:resent-cc: resent-from:resent-sender:resent-message-id:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=wQTBF2afvz81QjjGy/dLGfmpXBJDEp9Dvi84ArLcXMM=; b=ld+4QGQekHRVfj9ym6L5UpPSeU9Y+EbL/bOGwRALzg6/F2TFlMFqGP7X8tM+ILfFdlH3EQ LhBA//AsyAa7xOkzfDfmkXkktFBCPU/eWQDdjwKPURh6SQpOycGvuDNwP3MBDMHVyYJpgR QTVMZCYv9IY0Epo/xbJjiRO8Zl6/Z1iVgA7ETdA0DUo8aeyZhF9RO6DOLny/58CWzMoGRi P8bttPxGxpsGnIj6Tq98qcJUUJihQyhORPAetraL14v055dFQ+OQe4+dn52oKmjUW/hrK6 9z9IiyLKjlL4V4b+DOYlMArSCbQfOIfkeebhrP9SgLO3enAttpirn1ipauXGrg== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1623278051; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=fU/3oOc7r7KqwIUcTDTs9Ese1tKBtPCiIAhMw0X5SoPR+nHVV2uMT8ORZCKAYjZpcNtWYW czSV+99By4eB9wa59xFYJRkErgoTlB+Kjk5eLijiy8w5vrrmTTpVwBdr8LF+Z6xKI5WTCP 377LZta5HSJrdZA0sIcyzF42EJdOmX8B977CXUOoy/L6Kr3QKJX89m/fiWoJz58DDT5XMJ 5Si+2KjMmqT103TFfJtu437wIOJbNaK5BUBJ9tCBDWEV0+3QPztW/iu7CYELLUqbehw1e6 1zcRmMEUaRwHVpj1ISR6p3EOn5EVVq89MSjj7a4pxFPiFtzH2ZyHpmBb6OrzEA== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=tugraz.at header.s=mailrelay header.b=MIK7uwJX; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of guix-patches-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=guix-patches-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -1.33 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=tugraz.at header.s=mailrelay header.b=MIK7uwJX; dmarc=fail reason="SPF not aligned (relaxed)" header.from=student.tugraz.at (policy=none); spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of guix-patches-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=guix-patches-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: B4DD61762B X-Spam-Score: -1.33 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: mURHKm+6pWPJ Hello, As the one, who encouraged the sending of this patch I do have a few words to say. First of all, I misunderstood the context -- rather than systemd as a whole, I thought it would just be some systemd-related package. This does not matter that much, since a fully functioning systemd package would still be nice to have, but it still is important to distinguish between plain systemd, which doesn't work on Guix for various reasons and replacement libraries like elogind, which do. Next, let's address the elephant in the room: Am Mittwoch, den 09.06.2021, 20:31 +0000 schrieb Tony O: > In particular, im using it to relink against a nonfree binary which > responds badly to tampering, so im using it only as a library. A systemd package, which serves no purpose other than being linked against nonfree binaries does not sound particularly useful, especially not when thinking in terms of FSDG compliance. We don't even know whether *free* software linked against this systemd would behave as expected, let alone nonfree software. This was in part already discussed in IRC, but to reiterate, I think that the systemd package should be usable in some capacity -- be it, that we can run systemd as user daemons or be it, that we can *meaningfully* link free software against it. Note however, that the latter most likely implies the first, since there's no meaningful linkage against systemd without one of its daemons running. > Others (on irc) expressed interest in using the package, and i can > envision other usecases such as container images. Interest in a working systemd package has apparently existed longer than I was aware of, it's just the specifics of the term "working", that we need to argue about. > The downside to it being in my repo or being in "another channel" is > that anyone wanting to use it then risks nonfree software, and that's > already been lamented when i offered to do this in irc. I don't think, that's a realistic risk. For one, people could just cherry-pick systemd from your tainted channel, but more importantly you're assuming that the systemd you've packaged works in a context other than linking it against some evil binary without actually wanting to use it. Which is not to say that it doesn't, just that there hasn't been enough evidence to support that claim yet. There's nothing wrong with pushing WIP stuff to your own repo or any other channel that will accept them. There is however a problem with leaving them there and not even considering to submit them towards Guix (assuming that having a package for some given software in Guix proper is an option, regardless of the current state of the package definition), because then Guix will be blissfully unaware that a perhaps even proper package definition for it exists and might thereby be missing some awesome software. As far as the patch itself is concerned, there are a few FIXMEs too many for me to consider it ready -- in particular the double disabling of tests rubs me the wrong way. There's also some minor aesthetic stuff like the "add-shared-lib" phase, which is both not informative and bound to break with version updates, but I think that should be manageable. Going forward, I'd like to ask you (or anyone else willing to package systemd) to do the following: 1. Can you look into whether systemd or at least parts of it can be run from the package inside Guix? 2. Can you look into the disabled tests, particularly those, that are currently just FIXMEs? Regards, Leo