From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp10.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:303:e224::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms8.migadu.com with LMTPS id iI/BDe7OR2UUEgEAG6o9tA:P1 (envelope-from ) for ; Sun, 05 Nov 2023 18:20:46 +0100 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:303:e224::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp10.migadu.com with LMTPS id iI/BDe7OR2UUEgEAG6o9tA (envelope-from ) for ; Sun, 05 Nov 2023 18:20:46 +0100 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CBC7234441 for ; Sun, 5 Nov 2023 18:20:45 +0100 (CET) Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=gnu.org header.s=fencepost-gnu-org header.b=UBPEQIhU; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gnu.org; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-patches-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-patches-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1699204846; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=C2+beBoIq8UB2RoAhlQdXop4PeoxseG/bnshmiaeebfYdjQAVMLuHPfk91Xb1wR/yU9xjN P73nRkzX4fxkGQau2YISKZII22xdCxu8LLfvrfBsOL6X5Zn74moQz3BI6Kj81LYQV7GnsV vihrEE+X3+jIXf0ocyfeN/Kjj72rD46YilLnOt/vq4R5OS7TsrEkOyTbqejzhIe7ClXye2 G1sHv7DODEQYZs84I6CliiA/dm86lAR5t+Vs4d3itOIFnvxE0EAmiYM9fmDgGnn6UaR7q2 mMS4Q1ZqBe86o3+7GB3A9ppkrnOxiN2Rpf4bPf5uYArG9M2516s5/FuneV70iQ== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=gnu.org header.s=fencepost-gnu-org header.b=UBPEQIhU; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gnu.org; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-patches-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-patches-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1699204846; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding:resent-cc: resent-from:resent-sender:resent-message-id:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=CYXfuc/B0FnX8NP9MvFLhwbWuYbAVNRv1//UxTbNDLk=; b=l/DKRNjQWOuKuS19LATk0XwDd+s0LIdpevlPcCXdkN3wHs7mjUH9ncVAPb6YIfwpvn4kMS GQJ04HPGn7kHYqujdY4SoLeIUBDTi6Va9V8qPli3WyQdOg5CkAcjKOYUjV9yJjXQ2WJon5 eBH3MMsIqm1CJcCJSlxieqy8f+kFasuY/IAWFOffXEiNLfg75lcu6YURiCLrBnUiQ4otPU HDR5ceYaUzcbvWUe+n4H3AVo2/k0zE1uwjB/n/hVHY3Qeqcqq5WFBSQS7HW3uKaY3+as4g /opDtjtqS9nOwGqbIhs7EW8nx+wjZ01DblkzKbJJwGORLbgvKgbpJVLJON+8RA== Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qzgnU-0008Qi-GZ; Sun, 05 Nov 2023 12:20:28 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qzgnS-0008QU-IT for guix-patches@gnu.org; Sun, 05 Nov 2023 12:20:26 -0500 Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:5::43]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qzgnR-0006BK-I7 for guix-patches@gnu.org; Sun, 05 Nov 2023 12:20:26 -0500 Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qzgo2-0001BA-Cg for guix-patches@gnu.org; Sun, 05 Nov 2023 12:21:02 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: [bug#66430] [PATCH] doc: Mention the responsibilities that blocking comes with. Resent-From: Ludovic =?UTF-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: guix-patches@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2023 17:21:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 66430 X-GNU-PR-Package: guix-patches X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch To: Maxim Cournoyer Cc: 66430@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 66430-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B66430.16992048074449 (code B ref 66430); Sun, 05 Nov 2023 17:21:02 +0000 Received: (at 66430) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Nov 2023 17:20:07 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38115 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qzgn9-00019h-2z for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 05 Nov 2023 12:20:07 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:43478) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qzgn6-00018z-Dt for 66430@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 05 Nov 2023 12:20:05 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qzgmQ-0005h4-2o; Sun, 05 Nov 2023 12:19:22 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-Version:Date:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:To: From; bh=CYXfuc/B0FnX8NP9MvFLhwbWuYbAVNRv1//UxTbNDLk=; b=UBPEQIhUasVibnT/70JU PROGIfGlsF4YLhH8eaVjjq9c7Kbh9TOaITDIl6DvtY3Vsa9ugovUgPRlJs8NnccoaC2L961qfhBVP 2EFa54ALhzjt9b9X7DwdaSLaw7urCyvxk1qALmflCVVo7CBYOHFfl92ktW2FXAdJaph7Hm/NxOA89 YA2s7qmZ2mzyedYx5qHE86GP54ftDf5TmMrxfEWDFlJxhJcCgsAycvb1L6yvZFkEJCdt97gCIuqT1 jlfBvVEG4qN5h7HDq4QeXVjffXo5FQhXv6cygsrrT6cNpKqX25QmFQ2mUMjhS5t8Qo6X43Dj/bevW cd56B4vi1YvpSw==; From: Ludovic =?UTF-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= In-Reply-To: <87pm1j7opm.fsf@gmail.com> (Maxim Cournoyer's message of "Thu, 12 Oct 2023 13:08:53 -0400") References: <5760a46dfc1b97312d1d5512ebf1bd21da6707f5.1696903067.git.maxim.cournoyer@gmail.com> <87h6mwrhl6.fsf@gnu.org> <87pm1j7opm.fsf@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2023 18:19:19 +0100 Message-ID: <87il6gyv6w.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: guix-patches@gnu.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-patches-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: guix-patches-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Country: US X-Migadu-Queue-Id: CBC7234441 X-Migadu-Scanner: mx12.migadu.com X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -3.81 X-Spam-Score: -3.81 X-TUID: TbA1duxnc0nr Hello! Maxim Cournoyer skribis: [...] >>> +@url{https://www.seedsforchange.org.uk/consensus}. The project uses t= he >>> +@samp{Requiring people who block to help find solutions} block variant, >>> +which means a participant wishing to block a proposal bears a >>> +special responsibility for finding alternatives and proposing ideas/co= de >>> +to resolve the deadlock. >> >> I=E2=80=99m unsure about this. A situation I have in mind is this: a vo= lunteer >> writes a review describing issues with a proposed change that have no >> obvious solution, or rejecting the change altogether (for instance >> because it=E2=80=99s deemed outside the scope of the project or tool). >> >> How would one interpret the reviewer=E2=80=99s responsibility in this ca= se? > > It's a good question. Hopefully there'd be more than 2 persons > participating in the conversation, in which case there may be some > consensus emerging that the proposed change should be rejected. If > there's no consensus at all and nobody is willing to iterate on the > idea, then the issue should also be abandoned. I think maintainers/committers have a responsibility that passersby do not and cannot have: they must keep long-term maintenance in mind and they define the project=E2=80=99s scope. A newcomer or occasional contribu= tor may not share that vision from the get-go. > I submitted this change hoping to encourage active participation toward > consensus, and to "raise the bar" for using a block, which should seldom > be used according to the consensus guide. It'd be easy to otherwise > abuse it, at the detriment of the group. Yes, and I agree this is a worthy goal. My only concern would be if it gives an incentive for maintainers/committers to never say =E2=80=9Cno=E2= =80=9D. Saying =E2=80=9Cno=E2=80=9D is an important part of this business. :-) Ludo=E2=80=99.