From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp0.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:403:58f0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms8.migadu.com with LMTPS id 2Nd9OzDg8mVWaQEAqHPOHw:P1 (envelope-from ) for ; Thu, 14 Mar 2024 12:32:01 +0100 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:403:58f0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp0.migadu.com with LMTPS id 2Nd9OzDg8mVWaQEAqHPOHw (envelope-from ) for ; Thu, 14 Mar 2024 12:32:01 +0100 X-Envelope-To: larch@yhetil.org Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=pelzflorian.de header.s=key2 header.b="lY/kXQ1j"; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-patches-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-patches-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org"; dmarc=none ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1710415920; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding:resent-cc: resent-from:resent-sender:resent-message-id:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=7VzRuWQ9rJOFBwQAB9UUxpmeHqsi+z2dRk9MgkETOyw=; b=otFHjSc3zU1d0ngMFmUWwWTASFCDY4tpmpVWnvFt7kalvdPNp2+GvObJxx+ImRZPLQSVug CF0GU0EavmuB2aNa5HQmzkV+NyjTKscuZzRYCjvX6jbccS5aUkwRreQMhWmro9VvDxZH/Y SEK623BqUSPefFVyQxsSCrcmSJKq41C4edUNHYFecPajQOYig3gEMsqUKFJX/WKwfO4p3I 93W40DZaWnPuMvI/Ky07hRXXQOgS+7Bt8weKYRd8pC+WrrJAL1GotU3JBzOYAQsJdvVV90 sd3CqVNQF9R0J4ihRee+T+eUJ7qccGcXr7omt4e/ueNujV5f8tSsp6txJGDnmg== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1710415920; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=uyveD4eWoxtOHn+0GMvSPjWVvNC1fL7w2aEuNV7RuByfMpIxShsfSkcWYAqMub9t45qtWa 4pcjQA7QweAAjlXS/mHSJnt3Y8zxhCepcgBQHi5bpWcZ9rOywFpBaY9avR3ebjZFs821Wp R8BdI5xgFVSgHGBFpndfJiM7WFkp97ExyH/ULySzQ0VWuO1IFNpwbXnw8G1X196UTkrday K72bQ8rs3nQ9g+1RZLOF5aT3G17/MisnhB7jEgCWHISYv7clu2k2es8r0l+zcqpkWE3Hs/ U00Pz5lSELoVrQCnCV8qJWIxEL2p5hP5/P/EDTUK6HM18qPvJLEDqFfWG60vLg== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=pelzflorian.de header.s=key2 header.b="lY/kXQ1j"; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-patches-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-patches-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org"; dmarc=none Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7F968437FD for ; Thu, 14 Mar 2024 12:32:00 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rkjJK-0000lC-NT; Thu, 14 Mar 2024 07:31:46 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rkjJ1-0000bn-5L for guix-patches@gnu.org; Thu, 14 Mar 2024 07:31:27 -0400 Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:5::43]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rkjJ0-0006KQ-Ts for guix-patches@gnu.org; Thu, 14 Mar 2024 07:31:26 -0400 Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rkjJa-000870-Hv for guix-patches@gnu.org; Thu, 14 Mar 2024 07:32:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: [bug#69587] [PATCH] doc: Add =?UTF-8?Q?=E2=80=9CSource?= Tree =?UTF-8?Q?Structure=E2=80=9D?= section. Resent-From: "pelzflorian (Florian Pelz)" Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: guix-patches@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2024 11:32:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 69587 X-GNU-PR-Package: guix-patches X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch To: Ludovic =?UTF-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= Cc: 69587@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 69587-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B69587.171041588131130 (code B ref 69587); Thu, 14 Mar 2024 11:32:02 +0000 Received: (at 69587) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Mar 2024 11:31:21 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48511 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rkjIu-000861-LE for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 14 Mar 2024 07:31:21 -0400 Received: from relay.yourmailgateway.de ([194.59.206.189]:60903) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rkjIr-00085q-6X for 69587@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 14 Mar 2024 07:31:19 -0400 Received: from relay02-mors.netcup.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by relay02-mors.netcup.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4TwQDJ0rYrz44DS; Thu, 14 Mar 2024 12:30:40 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=pelzflorian.de; s=key2; t=1710415840; bh=6vYXkROirX+fVPY/Cz44SJCBO6d5kmpRM5F9opN5Qqg=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:From; b=lY/kXQ1jhZn2msPZFW+q0+zDfBPsYGxCdFpSgzjk/pQv6vmYfXdMFgwN9nGZ33QUc FQpAq8or8AKaB4HjBvcXrpnkondMHSBu3CiF47vVz3MEypitEcYS/pe8igRmcVRTKZ DSIKjwTbp/DpsZ9VBzMXki6ghUqVUX2UnfzqXy4US8lyD3wGx16Rkd36aw3YiLJFc4 n2FdWy+mY7oGIFofqi6nQLyNLI8cfMu4VUJRHgrXCE/UUPs7k2Ve/Pvne0NNaaFxdG qnwuMqvVcgEyA1KlbJnurcgMiCFX4jHJpRLAbI1imVcgCg9u7TiOaNCNKBKfwcf1RS HO+LLpkjVZgng== Received: from policy02-mors.netcup.net (unknown [46.38.225.35]) by relay02-mors.netcup.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4TwQDJ0T9bz7x3k; Thu, 14 Mar 2024 12:30:40 +0100 (CET) Received: from mxe217.netcup.net (unknown [10.243.12.53]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by policy02-mors.netcup.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4TwQDH65Tbz8svT; Thu, 14 Mar 2024 12:30:39 +0100 (CET) Received: from florianrock64 (ip92344de0.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de [146.52.77.224]) by mxe217.netcup.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 42F1882DB8; Thu, 14 Mar 2024 12:30:34 +0100 (CET) From: "pelzflorian (Florian Pelz)" In-Reply-To: <877ci5iz6q.fsf@gnu.org> ("Ludovic =?UTF-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?="'s message of "Wed, 13 Mar 2024 22:45:01 +0100") References: <878r2sa9hd.fsf@pelzflorian.de> <877cic2xa6.fsf@gnu.org> <878r2r8o7f.fsf@pelzflorian.de> <87le6oog1j.fsf@gnu.org> <87jzm8prmg.fsf@pelzflorian.de> <877ci5iz6q.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2024 12:30:33 +0100 Message-ID: <87a5n1f3ty.fsf@pelzflorian.de> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 42F1882DB8 X-Rspamd-Server: rspamd-worker-8404 X-NC-CID: 2uY9dwCM5j1J/mYi0yyQsGgpXvAxO43Ykm0Ty/tOf/yavuJhLTTfN8VD X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: guix-patches@gnu.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-patches-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: guix-patches-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Country: US X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -5.30 X-Spam-Score: -5.30 X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 7F968437FD X-Migadu-Scanner: mx11.migadu.com X-TUID: XzrO5XGR/Nij Hello, thank you for moving this to a resolution. Ludovic Court=C3=A8s writes: > "pelzflorian (Florian Pelz)" skribis: >> Ludovic Court=C3=A8s writes: >>>> Nice things like (guix swh) or (gnu system), (gnu build), (gnu >>>> installer), (gnu machine), or po, still seem not useful for the general >>>> populace to me. >>> >>> This is in the =E2=80=9CContributing=E2=80=9D chapter, so we=E2=80=99re= talking about a subset >>> of the general populace. :-) >>> >>> You might argue that few current contributors care about the modules you >>> mention, but by exposing the structure of the code, my hope is that more >>> people would dare take a look and fiddle with it. > > [...] > >> Still I would prefer if (gnu system), (gnu build), (gnu installer), (gnu >> machine), and especially po, were not part of the list. I expect that >> most contributors want to provide a package or (home) service with docs >> and tests. They will not customize the operating-system record type. > > This section is intended for people willing to > contribute to Guix or to learn about it beyond packages (perhaps that > intention should be more clearly stated though; perhaps that=E2=80=99s th= e crux > of our difference of interpretation?). This is the misunderstanding. It would help if the audience is clear, so other readers can skip the section. > If the section is deemed too long, it probably makes sense to trim it a > bit, but I don=E2=80=99t find it this long. > > Or we can use different examples, though I would keep those that are > already documented elsewhere in the manual (like (gnu system)). > > WDYT? Okay, people might be curious about directories and therefore look at these not immediately important directories. Then the reason the directory nix is not talked about is that we seek to get rid of nix? That there are other sections is not a good reason, however. But it also does not seem like it was your criterion of inclusion. > =E2=80=98po=E2=80=99 > This is the location of translations of Guix itself, of package > synopses and descriptions, of the manual, and of the cookbook > (*note Translating Guix::). Could you mention directly that translations are pulled from Weblate? >>> I think =E2=80=9Cmurky=E2=80=9D is a strong word, or at least it should= n=E2=80=99t be >>> interpreted as meaning that the guix/gnu distinction is arbitrary. I= =E2=80=99ll >>> try to clarify that as well. >> >> Hmm what is the difference between, let=E2=80=99s say, (gnu packages) an= d (guix >> package)? > > (guix packages) defines a type and associated mechanisms (the > =E2=80=9Cpackage Reference=E2=80=9D section). > > (gnu packages) lets you browse packages defined in (gnu packages =E2=80= =A6), > etc. > > The former is abstract; the latter is about concrete package > definitions. I see, but this is unlike (gnu system), which is equally abstract. There is a tendency, but case-by-case it seems murky. >>> +@code{(guix @dots{})} modules@footnote{For this reason, @code{(guix >>> +@dots{})} modules must generally not depend on @code{(gnu @dots{})} >>> +modules, with one notable exception: @code{(guix build-system @dots{})} >>> +modules may look up packages at run time---e.g., @code{(guix >>> +build-system cmake)} needs to access the @code{cmake} variable at run >>> +time.}. >> >> I think the (guix build-system @dots{}) never use (gnu =E2=80=A6)? > > They do, as in the =E2=80=98cmake=E2=80=99 example above. Only by module-ref. > >> scripts and importers do. > > Oh right, that=E2=80=99s true. So there=E2=80=99s more than one notable = exception. :-) > > Ludo=E2=80=99. Regards, Florian