From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:48170) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIV7N-0000wy-BQ for guix-patches@gnu.org; Mon, 22 Apr 2019 05:20:06 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIV7K-0008R1-V9 for guix-patches@gnu.org; Mon, 22 Apr 2019 05:20:05 -0400 Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:36136) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hIV7K-0008Ql-JS for guix-patches@gnu.org; Mon, 22 Apr 2019 05:20:02 -0400 Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hIV7K-0004rb-AR for guix-patches@gnu.org; Mon, 22 Apr 2019 05:20:02 -0400 Subject: [bug#35234] [PATCH] gnu: Add the-dark-mod. Resent-Message-ID: References: <20190411181644.21661-1-mail@ambrevar.xyz> <87d0lsib4l.fsf@elephly.net> <878swflfze.fsf@ambrevar.xyz> <87o95b31ta.fsf@elephly.net> <87mukvjusd.fsf@ambrevar.xyz> <87ef5v78f8.fsf@elephly.net> <87pnpf72ns.fsf@gnu.org> <87k1fm9zw5.fsf@ambrevar.xyz> From: Ricardo Wurmus In-reply-to: <87k1fm9zw5.fsf@ambrevar.xyz> Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2019 11:19:21 +0200 Message-ID: <878sw275ye.fsf@elephly.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-patches-bounces+kyle=kyleam.com@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-patches" To: Pierre Neidhardt Cc: 35234@debbugs.gnu.org Pierre Neidhardt writes: > Ludovic Court=C3=A8s writes: > >> Thoughts? >> >> Now, I would hope that the free game engine could serve as the basis for >> a free game, with free game data as well. > > Absolutely. Technically all those engines can be re-used for > fully-free game development. > > There is a blurred line however between the means and the ends here. > For instance, lots of packages we have in Guix can be used to deal with > some proprietary data, from web browsers to video players, you name it. > > My take at this issue is that free game engines are a first step towards > liberating the video game industry further. If we don't allow the > opportunity for free game engines in the first place, free game data > will never be worked on. This is a separate issue. There is no objection to providing free game engines. This is how we got here: --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8--- >>> First: what game engines do we provide that can only be used with >>> proprietary game data? >> >> OpenMW, Arx Libertatis, OpenRCT2, off the top of my head. > > Hmm, that=E2=80=99s not good then. I think we should take a closer look = at them > to decide whether they should be removed. > > The description of Arx Libertatis says this: > > Arx Libertatis is a cross-platform, open source port of Arx Fatalis, > a 2002 first-person role-playing game / dungeon crawler developed by > Arkane Studios. This port however does not include the game data, so > you need to obtain a copy of the original Arx Fatalis or its demo to > play Arx Libertatis.[=E2=80=A6] > > Aside from the =E2=80=9Copen source=E2=80=9D mention I don=E2=80=99t thin= k it=E2=80=99s right for us to > recommend that users obtain a copy of a proprietary game. The =E2=80=9Cyou need to obtain a copy=E2=80=A6=E2=80=9D bit is problematic= because it refers to non-free software. --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8--- The package claims to provide a game, not a game engine. As a user I would install this only to be told that I need to obtain proprietary software (i.e. the game or the demo) to play this. This is steering people to seek out and use proprietary software. We should change the package so that it conveys the right message, either by making it clear that this is not a game but the game engine, or by including the game data. Even if the data are non-functional they must be redistributable. If they are not then we cannot include the game data and it would be highly misleading to call the package after the game. > The Dark Mod is fully free, the game data is under some CC, so I'll > commit the package if there is no objection. Please hold off on pushing this package until we reach an agreement. My original objection was this: --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8--- > * gnu/packages/games.scm (the-dark-mod): New variable. [=E2=80=A6] > + (synopsis "Game based on the Thief series by Looking Glass Studios= ") > + (description (format #f "The Dark Mod (TDM) is stealth/infiltratio= n game > +based on the Thief series by Looking Glass Studios. Formerly a Doom III= mod, > +it is now released as a standalone. > + > +The game data must be fetched manually by running @command{tdm_update}. > +The ~a environment variable specifies the location where the game data is > +saved (defaults to ~a)." > + the-dark-mod-env-var-name the-dark-mod-env-va= r-value)) Is this actually free software? Does it depend on the proprietary Thief game data to be playable? What is the purpose of tdm_update? --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8--- I don=E2=80=99t think it=E2=80=99s good to have people run the tdm_update t= ool, because this smells like the anti pattern seen for many games in other distributions where you really only install a downloader, which then fetches the (potentially non-free) game data. The game data are free in this case, but since this is provided by an unversioned URL it might not be when a user runs the command. I prefer to include a snapshot of the game data. -- Ricardo