From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:303:e16b::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms13.migadu.com with LMTPS id MfNUGzmlaWeuSQAA62LTzQ:P1 (envelope-from ) for ; Mon, 23 Dec 2024 18:00:25 +0000 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:303:e16b::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp1.migadu.com with LMTPS id MfNUGzmlaWeuSQAA62LTzQ (envelope-from ) for ; Mon, 23 Dec 2024 19:00:25 +0100 X-Envelope-To: larch@yhetil.org Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=debbugs.gnu.org header.s=debbugs-gnu-org header.b=jM3drotE; dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=gmail.com header.s=20230601 header.b=S7rDgH62; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-patches-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-patches-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org"; dmarc=fail reason="SPF not aligned (relaxed), DKIM not aligned (relaxed)" header.from=gmail.com (policy=none) ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1734976824; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding:resent-cc: resent-from:resent-sender:resent-message-id:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=E/5cGx9wrEcIA72C1r8hiD3QH3o7+Svi5mRfuq9dJmU=; b=SGzAJxzFUTV0eTFg0fON44s4vdSrMec8EievTsf3oWqhzHA4+py3Aw28BJgoao/HxDI4sC OpAKdVGXcg264FYOtoLeno0rkLtnNKvDXdcKXsT+/G0E2kMQz6CB8HtDIpJ4W9OwEGO+xj D0I/dU6Uk3pBjCC0mcxy7KNNbNJsCHbxs/p+mfSo7xAmsQqg+yusEMSu4Aqcd6NtU1WcXI i8zsocHMRbENxw1nRX5Gtri78i9y1Cyw9OlQ+LU9K21Sy3CuLvU3J2S+P8bnf/n1mdlfnA dcn9obPknmSzQLcRwqTbaBuBDBzhSRILOjKKmic4XlY1iH6PQkeW9+sl15RtrQ== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=debbugs.gnu.org header.s=debbugs-gnu-org header.b=jM3drotE; dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=gmail.com header.s=20230601 header.b=S7rDgH62; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-patches-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-patches-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org"; dmarc=fail reason="SPF not aligned (relaxed), DKIM not aligned (relaxed)" header.from=gmail.com (policy=none) ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1734976824; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=NuJZa5g5kuZd/itj8+lI7s4vccKjzsGZK7pkkEZnABTcfTtJDWkakhGrHX4/Vf4Pnt3GNG KpOmvDxbAOgWcSVb33FVjR1PB5EAKANE9jL7CyTc8wAgpcGitg6p2Aus7tGDsoq9EbPdyJ tcx9mSO3fAzAElhvvzMugVccekkPBzCN6IjYj6GeaMmP1m9BQxGiaUkljO5c5eWwA1r5bv A++oajd8D+L0cexwzzff+cvcLGN41V1jl9dRjaRqSL24L+GF4TFxEuFBXV9NGbraV58Ke4 wXz2phmPdVAwV+fZI/3CHOIcB1jCjWzzXK82i68OolLgGqeKqVlwrup/hC/7Bw== Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C604681245 for ; Mon, 23 Dec 2024 19:00:24 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1tPmiw-0000YP-3l; Mon, 23 Dec 2024 13:00:10 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1tPmir-0000Vs-BR for guix-patches@gnu.org; Mon, 23 Dec 2024 13:00:05 -0500 Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:5::43]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1tPmir-0006Yf-0p for guix-patches@gnu.org; Mon, 23 Dec 2024 13:00:05 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=debbugs.gnu.org; s=debbugs-gnu-org; h=MIME-Version:Date:References:In-Reply-To:From:To:Subject; bh=E/5cGx9wrEcIA72C1r8hiD3QH3o7+Svi5mRfuq9dJmU=; b=jM3drotE7vVIgoBTSbpZ9XSX56wfbfgOMlEieKLsFatU2wbNDJI3hZc9wK/pz0QqhpGRatJ21XgXLEjPXybl3tRjCGHE916yaSW3eUCtD50YPp+edkN6DywfuyJrBMYYKTcVEz2pnqk8pbkkHdBM1uSKHeIZZziSndxoSdBAh4tQarqA8BSfPcwl0STOLsjDcDbWITJLo1U+X3Tamm0KxfITb8IsXkBMT49kmQpRxGoCJ7+WqT4jtlXtzzkCpjVx7v4xH2sjKiaRjRRZa6faAJDXO2hT8Nk2skynzteLe6AcRlZnfrvJd+sAd0a+HOBhALvuSUanjfJ0x8k1gmVggQ==; Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1tPmiq-0001r3-G0 for guix-patches@gnu.org; Mon, 23 Dec 2024 13:00:04 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: [bug#74736] [PATCH v2 0/1] Add Request-For-Comment process. Resent-From: Simon Tournier Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: guix-patches@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2024 18:00:04 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 74736 X-GNU-PR-Package: guix-patches X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch To: Ludovic =?UTF-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= Cc: =?UTF-8?Q?No=C3=A9?= Lopez , 74736@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 74736-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B74736.17349767797043 (code B ref 74736); Mon, 23 Dec 2024 18:00:04 +0000 Received: (at 74736) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Dec 2024 17:59:39 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56045 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1tPmiQ-0001pW-Au for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 23 Dec 2024 12:59:39 -0500 Received: from mail-wm1-f42.google.com ([209.85.128.42]:49196) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1tPmiH-0001p3-7L for 74736@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 23 Dec 2024 12:59:34 -0500 Received: by mail-wm1-f42.google.com with SMTP id 5b1f17b1804b1-43623f0c574so30432665e9.2 for <74736@debbugs.gnu.org>; Mon, 23 Dec 2024 09:59:29 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1734976703; x=1735581503; darn=debbugs.gnu.org; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:user-agent:message-id:date :references:in-reply-to:subject:cc:to:from:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=E/5cGx9wrEcIA72C1r8hiD3QH3o7+Svi5mRfuq9dJmU=; b=S7rDgH62JmXoMY+HxgxNTJppLCiIWzN2n1CSu9kPJ1wTxIeSOepYTWGXz6SPcX6W6p M9VP2dkA0jT3/BQKFsCgrMeoiKtN4FOE4/lhXWC/mFsP7HEp+qXC0XU6+N4lFe1C8HcY EieN/lPd+FVBM3zHtx97J2sCqqtk9sVPhCYHucFIxYZZ6YcXuqKmNIlbsAPLfAh6UDJi N/uLJdgLtj+cmT8xe/B0/sL6O3ZR7/hvXUH2JNMXnTUn4Jb4SOpdk1jzVR1Mq2g7Z/EY g7F2YwDnS2Vh9drCV/aYIFZCph2v8D0iDj/lypfPL3RdZYcAfi1T2rxu3Q/ynmfjPZab Nc4A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1734976703; x=1735581503; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:user-agent:message-id:date :references:in-reply-to:subject:cc:to:from:x-gm-message-state:from :to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=E/5cGx9wrEcIA72C1r8hiD3QH3o7+Svi5mRfuq9dJmU=; b=FXn5l3nDDUCf/XUjlOpGlMhrNviIR1OQmVclKLO3x5XwcRpU5AUFpx0nhAF+n/+ZJ4 NgKHZOKqmCXGmtCcFNEm/CnOqdcI+k1jmGwl2BLjYOyCTQhCMZ9ApnROeRPK/gpcwiAe fPphUN9drvttcwyyZaZyT2MV0pzfdRfksH8Do+ZOzvsOJc2Op/PrvwSlvoAWolS4zVmL 9BiRhMNpv6RJVKc+wXMsDqUXTwRnLOEgsOtV5ZKQ+WJxg8OZrrrqRtaw9v/Ago5EpGHc AVHFE6G8sx2arKR2J8Vnioq6pvVE4WYsZEXtdsvBg9SKBTxmlSU+/AfQHWPPdX3fpi5Y L3kA== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCWFdYuwmwFR4f30mY/yl0Cu3Q5bP4WGdJzkQgKqLb0Cuyq5cBG+tCv//CQV+Toj9NT2juPNbA==@debbugs.gnu.org X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YxfJ/QYfdppJEvZFAvSrIgewRhFgOoKCJlLkUWcQCWzhanAqiFi wt/rykscN8y7LkDCBsP+1IX55U00m4WIAdG4esV3arpxbk8sCcjXQx8PGg== X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncvqx8zHIB8QcwN9l9qANXqD/XFdX1w+iHnksIveuPmXQJrjYd3izsYEmH0duW1 72RMOAefWumptjk0FQVQwK3v0zmrpTUaS8wkQwh348EBnj8iQG1HA2fTN3GBxcdGJCbvSZr9w0Z O+W58ZTcYlafl5mFgzrl7R92ukINfnyx280b43vg0jQDaW+pveIhDej1hA9eNU26kboxZGq0Y1W cTqwB/yc0U0adsZ/LS/gp3gveb+WCsIPtN0G0RGkUz8rtBhf1TjVdghJNuuKeOzVy/krtE+hR51 1IYTYgQ2HZF3kgyBSE+SIwJLNyNggUW1fcegAQkA9Q== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IHoGbhgi2BN+UnL9/rIo6f3/NcMifY9aRhD3HINO2SmsQpMo/DLnIVv2K/zr/WrUeiZGi3ijg== X-Received: by 2002:a05:600c:45cd:b0:434:a7b6:10e9 with SMTP id 5b1f17b1804b1-436686462f9mr124207735e9.17.1734976703141; Mon, 23 Dec 2024 09:58:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from lili (2a02-8429-6820-f501-f792-61e9-15bb-8b9e.rev.sfr.net. [2a02:8429:6820:f501:f792:61e9:15bb:8b9e]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 5b1f17b1804b1-43656af6c4esm177104275e9.4.2024.12.23.09.58.20 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Mon, 23 Dec 2024 09:58:21 -0800 (PST) From: Simon Tournier In-Reply-To: <87ikraea0f.fsf_-_@gnu.org> ("Ludovic =?UTF-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?="'s message of "Mon, 23 Dec 2024 15:42:24 +0100") References: <87ikraea0f.fsf_-_@gnu.org> Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2024 18:33:00 +0100 Message-ID: <877c7qe243.fsf_-_@gmail.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: guix-patches@gnu.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-patches-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: guix-patches-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Country: US X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Queue-Id: C604681245 X-Migadu-Scanner: mx13.migadu.com X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -3.80 X-Spam-Score: -3.80 X-TUID: 0owSu2mUAUwv Hi, On Mon, 23 Dec 2024 at 15:42, Ludovic Court=C3=A8s wrote: >> +### Last call (up to 14 days) >> + >> +The author publishes a final version of the RFC and a last grace period >> +of 14 days is granted. People are asked to agree or disagree by >> +commenting: >> + >> +- +1 / LGTM: I support >> +- =3D0 / LGTM: I will live with it >> +- -1: I disagree with this proposal >> + >> +At least half of people with commit access must express their voice with >> +the keys above during this last call. We need to be sure that the RFC >> +had been read by people committed to take care of the project, since it >> +proposes an important change. >> + >> +When a positive consensus is reached, the RFC becomes effective. If not, >> +the proposal is archived and the status quo continues. > > It seems unchanged compared to v3. WDYT of my comments, suggestions, > and proposed wording: > > https://issues.guix.gnu.org/74736#9 > > ? Quoting: > I think committers here are mentioned as a simple way to express > membership and avoid infiltration, but it has the downside of ign= oring > many members and giving committers a special privilege. It=E2=80=99s not about infiltration, it=E2=80=99s about to be sure that peo= ple agree and do not overlook. > I propose this definition: anyone who is on a team (in =E2=80=98t= eams.scm=E2=80=99) is a > voting member*. I agree. > We can keep a quorum, but I think 50% of the voters is too ambiti= ous; > maybe 25%? Well, I picked 50% almost randomly. ;-) Somehow, I do not have a strong opinion. My concern is only to be sure that we have a consensus and not something falling between the cracks. > This would become=C2=B9: > > Once the final version is published, team members have 14 days = to cast > one of the following votes about the RFC: > > - Support (+1); > - Accept (0); > - Reject (-2). > > Votes are cast by replying on the patch-tracking entry of the R= FC. > > The RFC is accepted if (1) at least 25% of the voting members c= ast a > vote, and (2) the sum of votes is non-negative. In other cases= , the > RFC is withdrawn. For me, if we have only one minus, it means we do not have consensus. Therefore, the person who cannot live with the proposal must be proactive in finding a solution that we all agree on. In other words, the numbers are not for being summed, the aim is to capture: - Support - I can with with it - I cannot live with it BTW, I do not like the word =E2=80=9CReject=E2=80=9D and I prefer =E2=80=9C= Disagree=E2=80=9D or even better =E2=80=9CI cannot live with it=E2=80=9D. > I think we should now make sure we reach consensus on the timeline, and > in particular: > > 1. on the voting process; Maybe I misunderstand something. From my point, we do not =E2=80=9Cvote=E2= =80=9D because we are trying to work using consensus. When I proposed +1/0/-1 my aim was not to =E2=80=9Cvote=E2=80=9C but to be sure that the proposal i= s not overlooked. Therefore, instead of =E2=80=9CVoting Period=E2=80=9D, I would prefer =E2= =80=9CReplying Period=E2=80=9D or something like that. WDYT? Cheers, simon