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Thu, 15 Feb 2024 01:53:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from lili ([2a01:e0a:59b:9120:7d85:9c0b:111:5112]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id a8-20020a056000100800b0033cef5812f6sm1238795wrx.109.2024.02.15.01.53.18 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Thu, 15 Feb 2024 01:53:18 -0800 (PST) From: Simon Tournier In-Reply-To: <87y1bygbjp.fsf@> References: Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2024 16:15:56 +0100 Message-ID: <875xyrm5zn.fsf@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: guix-patches@gnu.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-patches-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: guix-patches-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Country: US X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -5.37 X-Spam-Score: -5.37 X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 572B459724 X-Migadu-Scanner: mx11.migadu.com X-TUID: xud24yW3ycfn Hi, Thanks for your feedback. On lun., 05 f=C3=A9vr. 2024 at 15:45, Suhail via Guix-patches via wrote: > 1. The documentation references GNU Shepherd. Is GNU Shepherd a hard > requirement in order to use the facilities provided by the patch > series? Would it be possible to use, say, Systemd on a foreign > distribution? If so, could examples of those be documented in the > appropriate place as well? >From my understanding, for now, it is for Guix System, so using Shepherd. It might be possible to use the =E2=80=99vm=E2=80=99 on foreign = distros but some details must be configured by hand, when it is automatically done by the =E2=80=9Cextended service=E2=80=9D. More or less. :-) > 2. The code sets the default date to be 2020-01-01; does this date have > any significance? It might help for the code to have a comment > explaining whether this value is completely arbitrary or whether it > has some significance. On a related note, it might help for the > documentation to note dates that are less likely to work (in case > values before a certain time aren't expected to be well supported). For this date, nothing specific I guess. The oldest commit that one can reaches using =E2=80=9Cguix time-machine=E2=80=9D is May 2019. Aside, it is hard to maintain a list of dates that =E2=80=9Cwork=E2=80=9D. = Because nothing is written in stone and the passing of time cannot be frozen. For instance, 6 months ago, a jump of ~4 years was just working [1]. And now, it is broken [2]. Somehow, Guix provides features that demo a real-world experience which was simply impossible. Therefore, things are fluctuating toward more robustness. That=E2=80=99s said, based on my experience playing with =E2=80=9Cguix time= -machine=E2=80=9D, my rule of thumb is: 2-3 years old is most of the time ok. Older than 3 years is=E2=80=A6 cross-finger. 1: https://simon.tournier.info/posts/2023-06-23-hackathon-repro.html 2: https://issues.guix.gnu.org/69058 > Additionally, I'm not sure if this belongs in the manual or in the > cookbook (or elsewhere), but it would be helpful to have some small, but > complete, examples. The documentation in the patch series mentions two > situations (time traps, and CPU microarchitecture optimizations) and for > each it would be helpful to have a self-contained full working example > referenced. For the "time trap" use-case, perhaps one of the > submissions from the Ten Years Reproducibility Challenge could be used. The issue with time-trap is documented in the manual, see: Due to =E2=80=98guix time-machine=E2=80=99 relying on the =E2=80= =9Cinferiors=E2=80=9D mechanism (*note Inferiors::), the oldest commit it can travel to is commit =E2=80=986298c3ff=E2=80=99 (=E2=80=9Cv1.0.0=E2=80=9D), dated May 1^= {st}, 2019, which is the first release that included the inferiors mechanism. An error is returned when attempting to navigate to older commits. Note: Although it should technically be possible to travel to = such an old commit, the ease to do so will largely depend on the availability of binary substitutes. When traveling to a dista= nt past, some packages may not easily build from source anymore. = One such example are old versions of Python 2 which had time bombs= in its test suite, in the form of expiring SSL certificates. This particular problem can be worked around by setting the hardware clock to a value in the past before attempting the build. https://guix.gnu.org/manual/devel/en/guix.html#Invoking-guix-time_0= 02dmachine However, it appears to me hard to maintain a list of all the known time-trap. For now, we are not re-building the past, therefore most of the time-trap get unnoticed. About CPU microarchitecture, I know only two: Python [3] and OpenBLAS [4]. All in all we are at the infancy of this work and any help is welcome. :-) Cheers, simon 3: Try =E2=80=9Cguix time-machine --commit=3Dv1.0.0 -- describe=E2=80=9D 4: Investigating a reproducibility failure Konrad Hinsen Tue, 01 Feb 2022 15:05:40 +0100 id:m1a6fahebv.fsf@fastmail.net https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guix-devel/2022-02 https://yhetil.org/guix/m1a6fahebv.fsf@fastmail.net Follow-up: Re: Investigating a reproducibility failure zimoun Wed, 02 Feb 2022 21:35:06 +0100 id:871r0l9fd1.fsf@gmail.com https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guix-devel/2022-02 https://yhetil.org/guix/871r0l9fd1.fsf@gmail.com