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Resent-From: Philip McGrath Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: guix-patches@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2022 21:01:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 55998 X-GNU-PR-Package: guix-patches X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch To: Maxime Devos , 55998@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 55998-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B55998.165532683614044 (code B ref 55998); Wed, 15 Jun 2022 21:01:02 +0000 Received: (at 55998) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Jun 2022 21:00:36 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40031 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1o1a7w-0003eS-4w for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 15 Jun 2022 17:00:36 -0400 Received: from out4-smtp.messagingengine.com ([66.111.4.28]:41681) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1o1a7t-0003e8-SY for 55998@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 15 Jun 2022 17:00:34 -0400 Received: from compute4.internal (compute4.nyi.internal [10.202.2.44]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7ECD35C0244; 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Wed, 15 Jun 2022 17:00:24 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0de6f5e5-c58b-354f-3ee0-18e824b7779a@philipmcgrath.com> Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2022 17:00:23 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.9.1 From: Philip McGrath References: <25870e3b599bef45e57c972d019cbee3228e9e35.1655311589.git.philip@philipmcgrath.com> <615afa0c32b6815e175915f9b15c174ab6a81f6a.camel@telenet.be> <401cbe02c58323fd1a52de199e3312b04ca411f0.camel@telenet.be> Content-Language: en-US In-Reply-To: <401cbe02c58323fd1a52de199e3312b04ca411f0.camel@telenet.be> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: guix-patches@gnu.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-patches-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-patches" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-To: larch@yhetil.org X-Migadu-Country: US ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; 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aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=philipmcgrath.com header.s=fm2 header.b=Ou3Kt0NQ; dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=messagingengine.com header.s=fm2 header.b=Z4ItM1DC; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-patches-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-patches-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Spam-Score: 0.11 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=philipmcgrath.com header.s=fm2 header.b=Ou3Kt0NQ; dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=messagingengine.com header.s=fm2 header.b=Z4ItM1DC; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-patches-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-patches-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 3DC5C2C8DD X-Spam-Score: 0.11 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: ZHGjVZG0p3bT On 6/15/22 15:35, Maxime Devos wrote: > Philip McGrath schreef op wo 15-06-2022 om 15:06 [-0400]: >> I agree that the choice-of-law language is less than friendly to users. >> >> The FSF has issued an opinion [1] that the APSL 2.0 is a free software >> license: they say that "Apple's lawyers worked with the FSF to produce a >> license that would qualify" (after problems with earlier versions of the >> license) > > I am not contesting that FSF considers APSL 2.0 to be a free software > license. In fact, I looked at that web page to look at why FSF > considers it to be a free software license. But I didn't find any > answer about the ‘dispute resolution’ clause. So it seems to me that > FSF overlooked that particular issue, considered it acceptable because > of the US being based in the US, or considered it acceptable due to > some other (unknown) reason. > > In case of the FSF overlooking things: mistakes can and should be > corrected (this is a free software distro!). In case of US-centrism: > err, no. In case of an unknwon reason: reason is unknown. > According to , "It is acceptable for a free license to specify which jurisdiction's law applies, or where litigation must be done, or both." That paragraph was apparently added in version 1.129, in 2012, but the note says that "this was always our policy": So it is not a matter of something being overlooked. Some other FSF-free licenses include similar provisions, which generally seem to make the license in question not GPL-compatible. For example: . > The point is being free, not being stamped as free by the FSF. > >> IIUC, (guix licenses) only defines FSDG-compatible licenses. > > Apparently, it doesn't, given the presence of the APSL 2.0, though > that's a bug. > >> Certainly there are broader community governance questions >> implicated, but I don't think this patch needs to resolve them. > > I did not ask anything about community governance? > I meant "community governance" broadly to include questions like, "Who decides what 'free' means?" Since I basically agree with statements like , I think there are troubling questions about the FSF's role and how such decisions ought to be made in the future. Still, IIUC Guix's current policy is , which links to for its definition of "free license". Bugs are one thing, but this seems to be an explicitly allowed under the existing policy, and I don't think this patch is the right place to debate substantive changes to Guix's policy. -Philip