From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp12.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms0.migadu.com with LMTPS id 6MQwBOjw3WEkJwAAgWs5BA (envelope-from ) for ; Tue, 11 Jan 2022 22:04:40 +0100 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp12.migadu.com with LMTPS id 8BTwAOjw3WE9XgEAauVa8A (envelope-from ) for ; Tue, 11 Jan 2022 22:04:40 +0100 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9E29E2D942 for ; Tue, 11 Jan 2022 22:04:39 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([::1]:33640 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n7OJq-00049V-QG for larch@yhetil.org; Tue, 11 Jan 2022 16:04:38 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:59468) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n7OJB-00049L-JS for guix-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 11 Jan 2022 16:03:57 -0500 Received: from mail-0301.mail-europe.com ([188.165.51.139]:37256) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n7OJ8-0001To-QW for guix-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 11 Jan 2022 16:03:57 -0500 Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2022 21:03:47 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=lendvai.name; s=protonmail3; t=1641935027; bh=kjm5CUCjtY38jlscgepmU4m+ifMJwiObgQyXoWL61BQ=; h=Date:To:From:Cc:Reply-To:Subject:Message-ID:In-Reply-To: References:From:To:Cc; b=SKxLatkjvpwUhBysX8kWkWBK6PFmt7ZUjs4ULbMI7MHbA22sjuX3pR3XpgnC79dli Fok3tEbq/+3wjAHMgw6P65LD03Hb2asknADM7MElFCwE5yL7ZXp0Yk2mwFvKnHMJo7 KwX/sdIQVvZVj6ZSgUi7wMeDIF9a8sHnXH//gWn0qMpI/cOubL7MQMeb4vGgabvg02 x8oZGiDbIN13nwb1NXQPUyMMbA+vKK2xAyk6xIOybpLj5VR0+b8cK579fOTQdmi859 qbzI6w8lrsaJliMpw+5Tkt3E1jGFkoGZf7DNgZniS/sl7uv/nzOirNfNK3PmgWJBZ4 onTqnSdIolHHQ== To: Matt From: Attila Lendvai Subject: Re: Guix wiki Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <17e49565b21.1285153a6259042.8278566905195778367@excalamus.com> References: <17e40b111ce.bc05a4a071499.1598136714226569120@excalamus.com> <17e49565b21.1285153a6259042.8278566905195778367@excalamus.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Received-SPF: pass client-ip=188.165.51.139; envelope-from=attila@lendvai.name; helo=mail-0301.mail-europe.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Attila Lendvai Cc: guix-devel Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Country: US ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1641935079; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=kjm5CUCjtY38jlscgepmU4m+ifMJwiObgQyXoWL61BQ=; b=PrKnfIsOdj4S+KpB+XTDXBDT+T4PRA+K6zkjoykhXcvNcnx8TsW6rTB6FJCZTjYA00G5Em Dm3yN128p2V8eanTkWhWY+EIp/ESMJ0aRHWDmdEE4IuOoFLCju6Hzn9izwpQuOEvhTZ+C6 K+mtzyvrTiOQRP/lkOsrgjDbIVZVu+ShsKqMypPmx4LpLkBcn7KI0A8/vbvEtDRjDrhW9F UN24vvadQCClFNOoyEdquKftqNeqDyR59N+42KOr/cxErNkYcRlmNVYLy9QuylhnslVpFD 3+NkFRVp/h/rE+wjl+ePrx6o6eUzDU+YAIOYedsC9Zpvh9X7/ZgZDWtCO5osAw== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1641935079; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=GL/ZZE9dPGOASAFyGu//SF0MdFOFgk1qFGwRSg9pPLQ07uxyM6z6i9dv3ZlFCCfbbT6oSJ +WZOt17Dg7BWMt4TzXf14gHX58meA6CCKlzSt2ynKUVeGeprmNqnp97I2yJuCKv3pMhFwJ NeT/TfHaMSrzyAdOdIoKfePOBEJh0ehv9+pkzmMvymFVKm2gYaAVY7p7e6EenDCskRcU7a iNQf5DML7vYfWaJiJKMce63yRpKs3PlCMlfw6bRTcEMPczKgE2/m8XkbcAz0PoKDmOUWe6 a8PBPzovd1DPTXiQOKhTwFegLng774OgrxDV88/S+pbaYGO4BLmSoczaZ1m3dw== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=lendvai.name header.s=protonmail3 header.b=SKxLatkj; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -2.72 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=lendvai.name header.s=protonmail3 header.b=SKxLatkj; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 9E29E2D942 X-Spam-Score: -2.72 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: b9SMImeYYnjO > > There is something here: > > https://libreplanet.org/wiki/Group:Guix [...] > I was thrilled to see a wiki link on the homepage and disgusted to > see that it didn't actually foster community. In fact, there's > strife immediately within the "community" wiki, the simple fact it > exists, let alone what it says. I think it would be better to have > nothing linked from the homepage because 1) the current wiki is > useless and 2) linking endorses what's there, including how it > appears hostile to community. FWIW, i had a similar experience when i came to Guix a few months ago: i was thrilled that there was a wiki, and then i quickly got disappointed that it's some shared something with little content (which means that e.g. searching will bring up all kinds of unrelated matches, etc). i looked for the wiki because i wanted to add something useful to it that i was searching for way too long, but then i ended up getting dismayed and dropped the idea. sending a patch to the manual is a way higher threshold than editing a wiki, especially when it's someone's first contribution. and some random, half-baked copy-paste doesn't belong in the manual, while it may be very useful when found in a wiki using the search engine. also note that i'm programming since i was a child, 30+ years now. at least half of it was part of opensource projects, and yet i had quite a learning curve getting to the point of submitting patches with any level of confidence (but not yet comfort). emails + debbugs + emacs + double-spaces + whatnot are all a cultural thing, and not necessarily simple for aliens, not at all. if you want, i can get into the details. note that i'm not necessarily arguing for a wiki here, i understand the concerns. i just want to draw attention that contributing to Guix, and especially to the manual by a non-coder, is not at all as simple as i see repeatedly expressed. -- =E2=80=A2 attila lendvai =E2=80=A2 PGP: 963F 5D5F 45C7 DFCD 0A39 -- Copying is not theft, and coercively excluding other humans from using know= ledge is evil.