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List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Country: US X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1680605693; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=oTbg/pWsiE2UPvwiQbQKDSNhb5ozqwhIcGDcXF+LMXsS2DLrt3UofnK8i5nTnAu3Jy7pRY cVpqvLIwuzjxz4o12MKyQy9tZyOIFHIQLldOb7m7CsfKUiZ4+1W5s1ydn+3/1SeU/7nFcc Esn41o29hX1lK2xR64nYcEHWN2KD+OH6Rs+01tMaRf+HBVxFm7WvWUzGVlhs3adj49Y59T pXO8UhoL2ZzxVjTc7JM1ShYzipTJqI/yW70PznkwAfoMjOjymgRrQ8ts4S77JWqBP729xX YjapZC28UP8sIZBAZD/GI7dsicP5qnADI39dEq9U2RXpXNC1Jtpi1xasXL1Q2w== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=lendvai.name header.s=protonmail2 header.b=lm86CxrQ; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1680605693; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=m0H+8Zl0T175PBdq+KvNvPeJeMTscElKGikNfeEy+Ds=; b=cVQiuYMGDiYmoHO4xHpvQoxzk0jSBew0iLIgNOPactl5mJ3p4uXPRXf9QhKF5o4VdWIRVu xmtzHSlRdLc/o+wc5C6/qU1wsxq8/daBvvNceYLx7rEgs33VtTYbTa5arfSGdJB4bE1UxT tdOsb+RweXZX/q4xfM8qyn84iq94aNry/ONe7zNXrlmxBAiqqF5h5CyBT+G6sooqPxyGx9 JUH4T1frcbnWRsPUD/lWizIoR7y7yf98KWzm+G/CZ/ZAZUnWRyNN0wGcF2isuY0aoBCRlZ GO9/CacrgXhMWqQx7r5DGdJI/o2ySJeTVPUtlLhWyTd4BwxvKbInv/R++71bcA== Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=lendvai.name header.s=protonmail2 header.b=lm86CxrQ; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -5.81 X-Spam-Score: -5.81 X-Migadu-Queue-Id: EED8C148A6 X-TUID: 4y8ArmS+GIVc > > it's another question whether this mirroring should be enabled by defau= lt in the clients. probably it shouldn't, > > > It probably should -- if things aren't mirrored, then it's not p2p; you > would lose the main performance benefit of p2p systems. > > More cynically, some p2p systems (e.g. GNUnet) have mechanisms to > disincentive freeloaders -- clients that aren't being peers will get > worse downloading speed. any successful p2p solution must have an incentive system that makes attack= s expensive (freeloading, DoS'ing, censorship, etc). arguably, the most imp= ortant difference between the various solutions is what this incentive syst= em looks like. from a bird's eye view perspective, there are two fundamental architectures= of p2p storage networks (that i know of): 1) ipfs-like, or torrent-like, where the nodes register/publish what they have in their local store, and other nodes may request it from them 2) swarm-like, where the nodes are responsible for storing whatever content "is" in their "neighborhood". (block hashes and node ids are in the same domain, so there's a distance metric between a block and a node). put another way: Swarm stores not only the metadata in the DHT, but also the data itself. in 1) there's no need to pay for, and to upload content into the network. a= node just registers as a source for whatever content it has locally, and t= hen serves the incoming requests. but if you have content that you want to make available in 2) then you need= to make sure that this content gets to a set of distant nodes that will st= ore it. this is very different from 1) from a game theoretic perspective, a= nd can't be done without some form of payments/accounting. in 1) it's simpler for a node to share: just give away your storage and ban= dwidth to the network. in 2) it's more complicated, because if your node is requesting other nodes= to do stuff, then you're spending a more complex set of resources than jus= t your bandwidth, potentially including some crypto coin payments if the ba= lance goes way off. but both cases are fundamentally the same: users are spending their resourc= es, and i wouldn't expect that installing a linux distro will start spendin= g my network bandwidth, or any other resource than my machine's local resou= rces. but this of course can change, too: maybe a future Guix release can adverti= se with big red letters on the download page that installing it will use yo= ur network bandwidth to serve other guix nodes, unless it is turned off. an= d then all is well WRT informed consent. -- =E2=80=A2 attila lendvai =E2=80=A2 PGP: 963F 5D5F 45C7 DFCD 0A39 -- =E2=80=9CHistorically, the most terrible things - war, genocide, and slaver= y - have resulted not from disobedience, but from obedience.=E2=80=9D =09=E2=80=94 Howard Zinn (1922=E2=80=932010)