From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp10.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms5.migadu.com with LMTPS id CJmWJxGgz2PavQAAbAwnHQ (envelope-from ) for ; Tue, 24 Jan 2023 10:08:33 +0100 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp10.migadu.com with LMTPS id 6EjGJhGgz2M7RQEAG6o9tA (envelope-from ) for ; Tue, 24 Jan 2023 10:08:33 +0100 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6DAC83814E for ; Tue, 24 Jan 2023 10:08:33 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pKFHe-0006AZ-8R; Tue, 24 Jan 2023 04:08:05 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pKFHC-00069g-79 for guix-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 24 Jan 2023 04:07:34 -0500 Received: from mail-4317.proton.ch ([185.70.43.17]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pKFH7-0005XV-MS for guix-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 24 Jan 2023 04:07:33 -0500 Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2023 09:07:03 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=lendvai.name; s=protonmail2; t=1674551237; x=1674810437; bh=rCj7UIwnoFUGAEedXvjvwkupKhWMeS1J6r+uQlrtX6k=; h=Date:To:From:Cc:Subject:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References: Feedback-ID:From:To:Cc:Date:Subject:Reply-To:Feedback-ID: Message-ID:BIMI-Selector; b=T4ftZwX2vZanpYOKc/aRvCcKNwBJzCxuqb2g8+YCy/SzChfI9nYkvnzHBG+6ineUq fL51v5xrXo43eaIVukkRfAB4gX1+4q6Pb/k6ons65pNcWwvNPzLBSLHlB3MVcuGz+l 9VmWNI6+4GZ7UcCXc6OXuPyV4CJ0cG2MMrdJCO7LTc+Wii47j6LT69DG8sj78AVbzG DIFevXCv9YWixMJwL//rUWyFXVAGILR1loV4qPVBrZ6Kl8Tc/ybxYo2k92+73w410Y mdWKKtTfH+1in77R8HMQgbn2zc5ORBVGHCiqVBkyDE/EaVOHnK0i5as8bZW8ngS8pt YwIMqf0mlsk9A== To: Simon Tournier From: Attila Lendvai Cc: Andreas Enge , Christopher Baines , guix-devel@gnu.org Subject: Re: Proposed changes to the commit policy (#59513) Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <86k01dzjpz.fsf@gmail.com> References: <87cz8no0a0.fsf@cbaines.net> <874jsq40cj.fsf@cbaines.net> <87k01k2ef5.fsf@cbaines.net> <86k01dzjpz.fsf@gmail.com> Feedback-ID: 28384833:user:proton MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.70.43.17; envelope-from=attila@lendvai.name; helo=mail-4317.proton.ch X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Country: US ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1674551313; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=rCj7UIwnoFUGAEedXvjvwkupKhWMeS1J6r+uQlrtX6k=; b=Ueuluolqc7SFAI5jLjyddR22iq6isUwCwFcLmyoAz2SvfyojiIx4ScpoJ6fn2P2t4Xmky2 cSWXz+ShmN0C0rD74SzT5LfwzgXdktIbpHtSTM87OW1C+7E7We6yhYVlcOPh5m+8scyfuT AFlINsXl+BiogUgKnMZhcoXxq8YPk65AK2aqeV7pMQYNc5dZZBlrpomo9Z1IFuPcwE6rLP tbtOJgF4NT1sfHa4iIk2ctlm08jPVEMOu6Xy+c36ssYxW0aKO8LXTAzk7S0MFGObIA5EPD pCKHHaoQslFkvREQniN58VuG38QMf4niCSTWeDreHN74RD23VArbDT0WCiBkAA== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=lendvai.name header.s=protonmail2 header.b=T4ftZwX2; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org"; dmarc=none ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1674551313; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=ghvVf0+KXQpSkBIIc5UEWoGQ3w0pggbH5kXBB1iuYXYS1zvl0X4STvzf6RKuEstEnu/Mts zo2qfpmwkfM0HKq/TllcvK8p569It51r9dENAlxRzgJLhZ5RY6hgs7EFTpXOlCb9C7Ojoc v0UCmW3BoUfMaBCoH+kenjv+NUjTeePUen9RELpNnDF+pMFSq2z9lsxVJw4WSIb6/2KHhK qMO68fglujGxlY6CqfEQiJlGOx+eTqG9tNcnYOZeleTIAbU5YdpPg4mgtYR/hCJVfZgB2u /gVwJG1h0pCpcZyOiorNiHXbKHhgpw0pmtfQwWRLNT4FjhsJ/OdJ+4MK0QJmiQ== X-Migadu-Scanner: scn1.migadu.com Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=lendvai.name header.s=protonmail2 header.b=T4ftZwX2; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org"; dmarc=none X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -2.76 X-Spam-Score: -2.76 X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 6DAC83814E X-TUID: qwlvMzNAsyQD > While I understand this =E2=80=9Cextra=E2=80=9C work is a burden, what wo= uld you suggest > to reduce the number of broken packages? Because all the red circles in > the dashboard [2] is a strong issue, IMHO. some random 0.02 follows from a non-committer. i don't think this would be = a lot of extra burden, but i'm not sure how this scales up to several commi= tters. with that in mind: besides the `master` branch, i would introduce a number of consequtive bran= ches called `staging1`..`staging4`. the more "problematic" a commit is, the deeper it should land in the stack = of the staging branches. commits are "promoted" stage-by-stage from staging4 towards master. the dee= per we are in the stack, the less frequently it happens, and in larger batc= hes. a major releases means promoting staging4 all the way up to master. master is manually fast-forwarded to `staging1` every few days/hours, after= checking the CI. this should be done by a dedicated person/role/group. when master is updated, then an immediate attempt should also be made to re= base the staging branches on top of the new master. when this rebasing requ= ires substantial effort, then it should be abandoned, and whoever is respon= sible for the problematic commits should do the rebasing. all the branches are built automatically by the CI, but there's a strict pr= iority: e.g. `staging2` is only built when `staging1` has finished building= , or when manually requested by a maintainer. the staging branches may be force-pushed, but the closer they are to master= , the less haphazardly it should happen. when a committer sees that a histo= ry-rewrite is in order, they should drop a mail to the committer mailing li= st informing the others, and a "done" reply when finished (this would work = better on a communication channel where deleting not-anymore-relevant messa= ges is possible). --------- further details: LTS (Long Term Support): depending on the available human resources, when a= major release is made, a branch (and a channel) could be opened for that r= elease. this branch would receive backported fixes on a best effort basis. = users, who want to delay dealing with the API changes introduced by the maj= or release, may decide to stick to this channel for a while. in the new setup master is always fully covered by the substitute servers. = in the current setup i often find myself locally building large packages li= ke chromium, which is a regular headache to me as a user. compared to the current setup, `staging1` would be a new branch; rename `st= aging` -> `staging2`; `core-updates` -> `staging3`. API changes should land= in `staging4`, waiting there until a major release. this naming scheme is more intuitive for newcomers, but it might also be mo= re error prone in everyday routine work. HTH, --=20 =E2=80=A2 attila lendvai =E2=80=A2 PGP: 963F 5D5F 45C7 DFCD 0A39 -- =E2=80=9CTo be human is not a fact, but a task.=E2=80=9D =09=E2=80=94 S=C3=B8ren Kierkegaard (1813=E2=80=931855), paraphrased