From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp11.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms0.migadu.com with LMTPS id gNSLOD0CMmIRnwAAgWs5BA (envelope-from ) for ; Wed, 16 Mar 2022 16:29:01 +0100 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp11.migadu.com with LMTPS id IEoKNj0CMmJTCAEA9RJhRA (envelope-from ) for ; Wed, 16 Mar 2022 16:29:01 +0100 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8526239D0D for ; Wed, 16 Mar 2022 16:29:01 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([::1]:45226 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nUVa8-0006TP-Cq for larch@yhetil.org; Wed, 16 Mar 2022 11:29:00 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:44058) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nUVZo-0006RB-S3 for guix-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 16 Mar 2022 11:28:44 -0400 Received: from mail-4316.protonmail.ch ([185.70.43.16]:38819) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nUVZm-0000TF-GB for guix-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 16 Mar 2022 11:28:40 -0400 Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2022 15:28:34 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=protonmail.com; s=protonmail3; t=1647444515; bh=D8QSX8yCEl0kZiSbnz5EaxhE/A770o12RuWIXix04sE=; h=Date:To:From:Cc:Reply-To:Subject:Message-ID:In-Reply-To: References:From:To:Cc:Date:Subject:Reply-To:Feedback-ID: Message-ID; b=LD8NQgZgHoHDsM6xQ4i0+7itAxFhAtXQCa0qR4f6M97LrRAYwbJca9iK6V6iBLNgY jZF5ZmGLZ4Y4M8KhkjgKgAkn6uDUTidapdVqI4sSn86QmtwTqNYWLdOYm2SaLap9z0 R90cCbFZsP5EwuPjbqapnGQvzFaOEJANGlrNxRWI7sgSs2zHP44RHu6zjeImtchQWo qbZ12InxFWaq5py/N7IWe6LWlRAA4hpAQjL0fc4USoGwdiGA/dCl6z3sCBPwBr3QWd bdkQDNNpQpiZ1gnVZoL3MKvuS11YFmX9QChseH5hqvwkCzo/jwELTq3oYYv2eHl6Nk 1yt+pG1YH3yUQ== To: Josselin Poiret From: Ryan Prior Cc: David Arroyo , Pjotr Prins , Guix Devel Subject: Re: Building a software toolchain that works Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <87tubyc7xc.fsf@jpoiret.xyz> References: <20220314202659.oftyvymu7tjiycba@thebird.nl> <26d5e14e-97cf-4346-a434-9e73658495b7@www.fastmail.com> <87tubyc7xc.fsf@jpoiret.xyz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.70.43.16; envelope-from=rprior@protonmail.com; helo=mail-4316.protonmail.ch X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H5=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Ryan Prior Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-To: larch@yhetil.org X-Migadu-Country: US ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1647444541; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=D8QSX8yCEl0kZiSbnz5EaxhE/A770o12RuWIXix04sE=; b=rAE2fERiRSrXRJgpe+qrm3sWaT0eeKtV7KHu9y1Fc/8tZe4kgrUy/DAsuxmwv/OJhJmtVi weVpZp2Vavrn+wr+Rzr82QQAMFIj+bhHA+4GwuXKo5OCezNffJQx03ZchDKTQ42CTwfns+ e8Xp4xKV1rkpAouHiZRpqBK3tcHY5vWF5mMzPGhvHbp93pnY0S7k9t6pnt8wT/HTFWlaHS qxym6Rl1b5PQzsJTvuByTsXLpDmePPKYw8+ePsZOU/Twzc+mH+grJwB/qekPwkD8dJnrsC ioFPbhJsthDuM6UqFFUbp6+0Xib6UYlnab7QnuwcwKSTlA7Wn2loSoROvQV59Q== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1647444541; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=NAbxAldbPiedQKIRw07NYMA/4moyDjSOjD54MY6eX2I1KnLo+Jb8n2TnaICBr58h0fGH/4 xWhKd7q4og7h1TPBcBMveA4icR1b50nwLmuPBjfSsDumWLI0xRhp1DjcCpN9+N0RBD+vOJ XWdVJEPrGgRRF4CA20907X48zSPdeKSV9paFdT/wa7Rdkgx84r4CqWh54d8+c7mlhbIF2P hiuGTVTRJvOF6S57jZWeyewnn8jxpTBsKwdSFwUNIhDp36ompHoAzYWorxOsDhrkcqxevG br6DI+9THscAPaeam8ouOSf971aiXWI1OzsavRKuchLDflyzJv8dDLxtKp4oWw== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=protonmail.com header.s=protonmail3 header.b=LD8NQgZg; dmarc=pass (policy=quarantine) header.from=protonmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -9.16 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=protonmail.com header.s=protonmail3 header.b=LD8NQgZg; dmarc=pass (policy=quarantine) header.from=protonmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 8526239D0D X-Spam-Score: -9.16 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: FLnCxhUjQGtR On Wednesday, March 16th, 2022 at 2:02 PM, Josselin Poiret wrote: > Let me chime in on a specific point. >[...] > I don't think I would've written these patches without Guix's help. This is CRUCIAL to Guix's value proposition: by abstracting away so much of= the incidental complexity of software, Guix enables a nimble, carefree mod= e of hacking where you'll create and improve software that would never have= been worth the trouble otherwise. Proposals like David's `guix contribute` play on the strength of Guix as an= enabling technology. That's exactly the kind of thing I meant when I wrote= "double down." How can I encourage the improvement & implementation of suc= h proposals? A few notions: a. My Guile isn't strong enough to put together a proof-of-concept in Guix = as a solo effort. I might be able to write a PoC in concert with a more exp= erienced Guiler. We could schedule some strategy & pair programming session= s to get something on track. b. I could work on a PoC using a language I'm better trained with (elisp, R= uby and JavaScript are my three strongest languages probably.) I don't know= how that would be received by the Guix commons, I've felt discouraged in t= he past to extend Guix unless it's in Guile but perhaps that's a false anxi= ety. c. I could also provide some funding if somebody has time & skills to creat= e a PoC and just needs the financial incentive. If this is you, reach out. I've been pleased to see ideas resonate in this thread. It makes me believe= many of us have some form of this thought in our heads and that by sociali= zing we can bring something fresh to the free software world. What are the = next steps?