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Sun, 10 Dec 2023 18:56:21 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2023 18:56:19 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: Should commits rather be buildable or small Content-Language: en-US To: Attila Lendvai , Ricardo Wurmus Cc: Saku Laesvuori , Liliana Marie Prikler , guix-devel@gnu.org References: <6bcc9412f092c20fbd7f8326dbf91e90cef0eed1.camel@gmail.com> <875y16c54b.fsf@elephly.net> From: Philip McGrath Autocrypt: addr=philip@philipmcgrath.com; keydata= xsFNBFxfDXMBEAC50KOX7FVfbH5kzv1IWAu58hz77HfgH46izt8+3X51/AzD0QsrVnzz3fS0 37e5wnB4hpT/a6iGPbaah02nOhrCWjllWQrnp7rb0q9w8rnA41W5Aeajsob3/mPlSTkgX77/ nfXHFSaIPi+6DseAQO6EMbQrA/Ue4Yal/LWaAcpmGeAXUQabvH1I7LY5f6RI/pMii5cVmqm/ ea/oVroVeT4lBLh/1jEKv+tCVn1h9ks5L5AcbumaenEjgtJZ22/WUNowLD21uug7WCHlVdf+ 3PKSg/Hd7jotxYrfbhIEH2494KnenslxX4psavsH/AAWWTouvdiY5Q2d7eDH6P6ggWa1fXgs LlxFgtTTOmNTKViBKYk/g6gE2DpTaNG2pPqblxVlgy751O9y5UTBET0zj75BY55dKzoKg541 hBwKuwhNj0fA3xKesYzs2VdrzredEHegPeucQfTBSQ0G8lNdofElyv1e92rJtkAJXpodwNJf gmfJpdP33PPd1a7WQwWbo96JAkTkYnisEQyvJbQ8AvJw7V9xY79/pd2dXJkz88HZP486UiSK RmO9kItVSjCYz2Tqv75aZocpC661fv66GuLZfOCR1I0nbXNFxNs6K3/otJ3ignDFJCD4wk6j TlSODDeeXxDJtyBBrnYIzgb86KI3RJxoKrfbos0oavfWA2NGpwARAQABzSlQaGlsaXAgTWNH cmF0aCA8cGhpbGlwQHBoaWxpcG1jZ3JhdGguY29tPsLBlAQTAQgAPgIbAwULCQgHAgYVCgkI CwIEFgIDAQIeAQIXgBYhBPRlq6zWN66sFBVVz8oDY436Pxx6BQJkZmCHBQkJlXgUAAoJEMoD Y436Pxx6JvoQAKufvt1nAdezaIj+LccaKMOCNnVFxXBIDyaU9+Gmqh1ANQGLpdljfFmecpWm 1SA3sqDZapF2zg/hMHWbDGvdHJnPbtfnfS7ZZtOpdgRtMpE4zVeSi4t2NcIV0wQiPBXZhR0O Qp2PCMsExunJ0DV1pPMEt5r825haNPXZErSM3ectFgJwxjxEeOZ7khmrVrWZe0OddSsEEQsn 9jxpftLRgE/6N31wDuM/BDIrz+6AOc98zKFIoMmv8z9p1EEOvoFs7WunJklpWq6W4FggIPT0 UxlycFQBxzpVj2ga6MZVZ8Sp2fq0jgKn3uubYySyNi8SE6PfSre+QIG54OA+j9NSiVi36um7 Z4nqRC6JPoBe2VTwaZLskeO4grYHKFZHKVyOk3jcvDY5R8uyh+hPPj5kvYS34YFESZf+5LTA HoYmaOY8YGEqH66p9ukYbXaAoH9lmQig0zVcyyE9o8OuKhkvksiJ+2pEYtWXOkVqvj18xlfQ mLfhlWYo/o42x975zACjrZQe5+ZdQS9sz7ietWrHbZ9+hl79iSfeVkNvMikdZ5CZ81YvF42z kpDr6vWc2ImxIpgCTRp5HAUtKVsUJE/+yJop+AeVMonzzGaFd5tG/aT5BOz3w6ua3WfXqA9b NpeO4ANi2IQrhhWNq26JWx3Yx/QgxrNm44skIzuEEyL3b6Q7zsFNBFxfDXMBEADq/Vlop4lx W9Bi7cYaxjnhNMbDxR3aVV3GMy7zkuV3fGjvTAuO7raDoqN91y2bvm+vkM54Mw+Fu3ThBHCc niYkdgyIlpLNfFhQOOBtlj1jNmCGTOp7JBJ8mjQucOGy3A0uUaqvkMncO2trsfEsRD25nTZV dji4cHePP86Uc/w98OBt5cPLyM5/WU+GTpPBATFc1u4DocMSqbCZcNLDr1O7P6Knl8vsCtRj r4X4xp3d3I+aZ1h5l/Hu20u+/7fg8PO/WDOCMwqN64xB2OHLv7bQm0piwVN+Gkyjhk9EJINO m05ieGxvsyAaQDMkgvm/Hp1G2LJEWkxaTalnBawaVYM4TgpE5hU9gda3Ld/pdT2lkNmVq47v d//NBYWa1/aJGqBP2XlW0JMywmDEVH2fFwVqMQ3ZzE+N4HnSR6Uslv4DpIeYLGevheHLqegO o5VySo/P+lGQDO0vSHbBZgRJ/ROwNvkJVEQ9pI34Edt2zCfUYqjUU+3tcd2xgR8/JP2dnjYp NDq4CK/8ywk+sl8WY8MQpKccJdWp0CVgp2y88YALn6x9wxsPGQ8Lk7sB4ADwwPX87pFdJqe2 2oKgG9HklBTSxvdr1fN+/n4AD5XPBhMpi9UZHdaVuWzVfXU6EKMHlsJfJ7sF1atKVPcQDIN/ SxwTlxmsHVCMxifikklhQwmD/wARAQABwsF8BBgBCAAmAhsMFiEE9GWrrNY3rqwUFVXPygNj jfo/HHoFAmNsLkkFCQmC/B0ACgkQygNjjfo/HHrGqxAAgdV2GRCEIJwbLtRTv4qpfANsfX/I S0KZBDbwtZuCDceQTfsS8lF5WGJOPxF7MDkVGRhBPYpVamO56V+Y/o6drX0JEeWqLwB3nc8b PFpFcGTFOxp6Q1Ps4n/L/+hhTsI4vO79jsf97s7GPhSLpnzakb2Enh25G/MoToj6qQvuuqFW lDX1hxBC9Jf6pnuX1XGUik9LZVpuqf9suVgNa4Wf6ZverzphPWObXifpjVREk7jJ0g2OBGZz CATDfgEfu4OtV2JEeSrPZeFoHPQzsFfO/n99ZxBWVLbiXJgNTnU/vwbPkMpPjED3WSwTesW+ SgXfZf4KHFigC3Z34uhXfxn4I1XEW7UGgbtsrFqJI+WVzP2mUeOzNoz980N1tfowzoNShfKD rcDhtpyZZcaA+0O1oVSKs3LUT4QNiYl/lcg4l0qnBvj+ilG3ViXikhKn4RMJUppbXCx09ZBK Pz1PAvig0mnpCWCjizdbtuFzkZsLmfYjIbxkXBLMmQdqMgqUnsUGvUh0u+v5zQlc3IQnpLBt vkQuitsVuqkCKSILz8p2DyA6PWRI988fGPakjvV13iGwAIfFPsNvOoWsVLz3GT6f9chF4fAY JuOem41lA82RZB9fPty0S8YVavucU7qzTfHRj6LwvrWzLk6wRA7ThPHWVAZsyH1iYO+nUOsU FFu7icw= In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received-SPF: pass client-ip=66.111.4.25; envelope-from=philip@philipmcgrath.com; helo=out1-smtp.messagingengine.com X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Country: US X-Migadu-Spam-Score: 1.00 X-Spam-Score: 1.00 X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 87EE341178 X-Migadu-Scanner: mx11.migadu.com X-TUID: t9xJgI1Ur8Dn On 12/10/23 18:20, Attila Lendvai wrote: >>> FWIW, this commit policy has always bothered me as a newcomer to >>> Guix. pretty much everywhere else it's a major offence against your >>> colleagues to commit something that breaks the build in any way. >> >> >> In the last few months I’ve repeatedly seen assertions in a similar >> style as this one. They always genuinely surprise me, and it’s probably >> not just because I’m oblivious and out of touch. > > > well, both point of views are reasonable. they just make different tradeoffs. > I find it hard to see any benefit to anyone from making commits so small that they are known to break things that will be fixed later in the same series. Even aside from `guix time-machine`, substitute building, and the like, a human reading the diff won't be able to see what the true impact of the change is. On the concrete issue: On 12/10/23 10:28, Saku Laesvuori wrote: >> However, in each commit at least the package touched in that >> commit ought to build. > This should, of course, be theoretically possible with at least one > update order but I don't know how would I discover that order (more > efficiently than by trial and error. I don't want to try ~800² different > combinations). Preparing a large set of updates like this is already a great deal of work. It does not seem to me like a good use of volunteers' time to ask them to break such an update into hundreds of tiny pieces, especially not if the result is hundreds of broken commits to Guix. Philip