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List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Country: US ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1645377081; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=6e05GWcezxtAfI+Ib7x9qdsh2EvuAXZ+XqnGvpUekz8=; b=HV6f9m+WL3SIOmLA1QTfXEqVe1ECa3QM9a+7AHpj9Ugq00tUbaxa6aaYAkBh7Do2AhNnQx 99kP8U9TmY99ElGle/hjwo0aHx+ZkwLTcW8oGhSiijcUcrMPHJ4lGSBpYsRgygsmMb/gD1 VhJgBrShMlelC+IQ49RtteNSY9RoaCx5Wc8N0PmWNrrEP9GgR+amY/90tJ2D8h9gKw96NW 1cwCMtc1hrKaqUfy9ac8Oqyk7T5U4mrth/FkXs6+A4nXpgVxMqldEzaOWXG9CYmu3gKcZO +/Qd9GTVZpdDeY/1+782veTEOdxSYnUnnnx8c2IZakAgXITievu3syrI0Ak6rg== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1645377081; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=MoJaNwT4cacmrPv3LxUYP2LHxExdVZ44sElxR+RnJQPsvSRnauA1r+It+k3TswT5Q691Eo +jVmkwZSZXN3xFG0Wx1jg9/mgeo1wZpRmuC1GotxLkgMrk6qpyNPJjQFhre86oFPb3Jw3S epddCO/DAusKl+hJbDmN3fr9Rus+NzP48YDfkzzFD/L819S3EwNdR7cxwsPu6YBYFKzdwC ssvn0lFi3r5qW8Q7JbyjHTTQsJ+2m1G1n7ft/7BDUg4PLrAfgt79l10vk25nHsLLm8Pv47 In7SwCjnOZsw4pYAnS3nq9CdnuNdkTMaWG0QHIoxmqJIEqmKfDfC5kQQAY9fCQ== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=telenet.be header.s=r22 header.b=iZenfSNr; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=telenet.be; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -5.43 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=telenet.be header.s=r22 header.b=iZenfSNr; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=telenet.be; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Queue-Id: DAFEE2BA7D X-Spam-Score: -5.43 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: KWOoLlKBfnDa --=-cFsAUdXs/GF6LNLYa+8E Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Martin Becze schreef op zo 20-02-2022 om 12:13 [+0100]: > I don't consider mining to be wastefully and this is a extremely > subjective opinion. What is subjective about the numbers about energy consumption? Quoting myself: =E2=80=98At least for bitcoin, mining is known to consume an absurd(*) amount of energy (the footprint of a whole country, and 1 Bitcoin transaction is said to be equivalent to 735121 Visa transactions)[1].=E2=80=99 [1]: See, e.g., https://www.nytimesn7cgmftshazwhfgzm37qxb44r64ytbb2dj3x62d2lljsciiyd.onion/= 2021/03/09/business/dealbook/bitcoin-climate-change.html / https://www.nytimesn7cgmftshazwhfgzm37qxb44r64ytbb2dj3x62d2lljsciiyd.onio= n/2021/03/09/business/dealbook/bitcoin-climate-change.html (*) the word =E2=80=98absurd=E2=80=99 might count as subjective here Where exactly you draw the line between wasteful and not wasteful is rather subjective, but the numbers theirselves seem rather objective to me and wherever the line lies exactly, these numbers seem to be well over it. It should be a users choose whether or not they want to mine. A corner stone of free software is "(0) The freedom to run the > program as you wish, for whatever purpose." By limiting what is=C2=A0 > accessible to the user based an arbitrary, authoritarian and > controversial morality goes against the nature of free software. Guix refuses to have anything to do with non-free software, banning it from its repositories. That seems a bit authoritarian to me. Some people would say that's rather arbitrary of Guix. There's still plenty of software that is being kept non-free, so I guess that =E2=80=98software = should be free=E2=80=99 counts as =E2=80=98controversial morality=E2=80=99? Along the same lines, Guix disabling telemetry and removing Google Analytics from documentation could count as patronising to upstream. I suppose that technically, =E2=80=98don't mess up the planet=E2=80=99 is = =E2=80=98controversial morality=E2=80=99 given the existence of various lobbies etc., but I don't think we should listen to them; we all live on this planet after all (unless you're a space alien of course :p) and it's not like we have any back-ups. Additionally, from a technical point of view, nothing in Guix is stopping people from messing up the planet. If they feel like it, they can make a package definition and run "guix install -f produce-lots-of-carbon.scm" or the like, or publish a channel, etc. While it's the user's choice whether they _want_ to mine or not (Guix is not a thought police!), it seems inadvisable to _help_ people with mining and perhaps useful to _stop_ people from mining. That is, stop people from doing the act, not stopping people from wanting to mine. Actually stopping people would be something for the law and state though, not Guix. Caveat: there's a risk of descending a slippery slope here, see e.g. the mail by Taylan Kammer. Greetings, Maxime. --=-cFsAUdXs/GF6LNLYa+8E Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iI0EABYKADUWIQTB8z7iDFKP233XAR9J4+4iGRcl7gUCYhJxvRccbWF4aW1lZGV2 b3NAdGVsZW5ldC5iZQAKCRBJ4+4iGRcl7qTvAQCSWMr02VSxe3pIgRq6D29uqcHD dSM8zNV2ICdgc6cXkwD/RtM8eLFGrMF4AXmZJHlFkYxmWmy9fIPR2IHrNDTPRA8= =NOu3 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-cFsAUdXs/GF6LNLYa+8E--