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Sun, 10 Dec 2023 22:53:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.143.124.158] ([130.95.40.105]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id z4-20020a170902ee0400b001cfc44aac0fsm5831685plb.111.2023.12.10.22.53.11 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 10 Dec 2023 22:53:13 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2023 06:53:09 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.15.0 Subject: Re: RFI: Guix XMPP service. Content-Language: en-US To: MSavoritias , Vivien Kraus , Felix Lechner , guix-devel@gnu.org References: <874jgqk90z.fsf@lease-up.com> <2fceb085-f113-03f8-a950-4f6e43203c6a@fannys.me> <87v896i0e3.fsf@lease-up.com> <81610f0c-160f-6ace-c135-5024717712f1@fannys.me> <8b55d5859db6d7e09e953cb9edadfd8325d10dc0.camel@planete-kraus.eu> <68dcc944-6388-fb83-998a-be9568c11864@fannys.me> From: Ada Stevenson In-Reply-To: <68dcc944-6388-fb83-998a-be9568c11864@fannys.me> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::42a; envelope-from=adanskana@gmail.com; helo=mail-pf1-x42a.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -49 X-Spam_score: -5.0 X-Spam_bar: ----- X-Spam_report: (-5.0 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NICE_REPLY_A=-2.924, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Country: US X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -9.49 X-Spam-Score: -9.49 X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 384E06583B X-Migadu-Scanner: mx10.migadu.com X-TUID: 8bYhTVWnyLj9 Hi, On 12/10/23 4:04 PM, MSavoritias wrote: > > On 12/10/23 17:56, Vivien Kraus wrote: >> Le dimanche 10 décembre 2023 à 17:45 +0200, MSavoritias a écrit : >>>> There is also a trust issue. For acceptance, we need bridging. For >>>> bridging, we need policing. And for policing, we need people with >>>> time. I am of the opinion that bridging would be a bad idea. The differences between IRC and XMPP are significant enough that bringing would probably be more disruptive than conducive to acceptance. A better approach would to simply have a separate IRC and XMPP channel. If people end up preferring XMPP, more people will simply elect to use it. In any project eventually the main communication channels tend to split up into smaller groups once they get to a certain size anyway for a number of reasons. This doesn't stop these other spaces from being 'accepted', and if we have the XMPP channel become official, I think this is acceptance enough. >>> That's a good question yeah. Whether we want bridging that is. >>> Personally I am leaning that we don't. >>> >>> Because bridging can ruin the experience of people that use XMPP. But >>> I >>> can see it either way. >> Maybe we could do something a little smarter, like having sneek deliver >> messages in both IRC and XMPP. >> >> Vivien > > There are mirroring ways yeah. That would be a better solution. > > Because there is biboumi but it basically just creates an IRC room in > XMPP. > > > Also sneek should filter stuff probably. Because xmpp allows pictures > and long messages and such. > > So it shouldn't mirror everything as is. I don't know how possible it > is though. Maybe some custom setup of something. > > > That said I do have my doubts whether this is more trouble than its > worth personally. > > Given that IRC and XMPP are two very different protocols that are > probably gonna attract a different community. Agreed. Specifically, mobile XMPP clients work far, far better than their IRC counterparts out of the box. I think we'd see a lot of people come to the XMPP server due to it's great mobile accessibility. In short, I think we should host our own XMPP server (maybe a VPS for uptime purposes? With media uploads and message logs, storage would be much more of a factor to consider compared to IRC) under the guix.gnu.org domain name and list it on the website. I think once we get to that stage, investigating how to keep track of message logs (perhaps mirroring logs to logs.guix.gnu.org, perhaps under a separate page to the IRC logs) will be vital in moderation efforts. Bridging would cause more problems and potentially solve a problem that we shouldn't want to solve (having one unified space). > > > MSavoritias > Ada (adanska)