From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp10.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms5.migadu.com with LMTPS id gOYGJLBBdGINXwEAbAwnHQ (envelope-from ) for ; Thu, 05 May 2022 23:29:20 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp10.migadu.com with LMTPS id IO43I7BBdGId5QAAG6o9tA (envelope-from ) for ; Thu, 05 May 2022 23:29:20 +0200 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3AD3518183 for ; Thu, 5 May 2022 23:29:20 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1]:33322 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nmj2E-0000Nd-DD for larch@yhetil.org; Thu, 05 May 2022 17:29:18 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:51892) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nmj23-0000Is-QM for guix-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 05 May 2022 17:29:07 -0400 Received: from xavier.telenet-ops.be ([2a02:1800:120:4::f00:14]:35408) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nmj21-0002xz-AQ for guix-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 05 May 2022 17:29:07 -0400 Received: from ptr-bvsjgyhxw7psv60dyze.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be ([IPv6:2a02:1811:8c09:9d00:3c5f:2eff:feb0:ba5a]) by xavier.telenet-ops.be with bizsmtp id T9Uz270074UW6Th019UzDy; Thu, 05 May 2022 23:29:01 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Multiple profiles with Guix Home From: Maxime Devos To: Liliana Marie Prikler , Andrew Tropin , guix-devel@gnu.org Date: Thu, 05 May 2022 23:28:53 +0200 In-Reply-To: <2d0e343d6ff84281e51a8fa4e0f0b3bb54f1b7b1.camel@gmail.com> References: <8735hqvh4a.fsf@trop.in> <8a42a0c84d35231b360a421fe0b846c8e1aa3d2c.camel@gmail.com> <8b66e609b7c9d5183017ccf7fef47c818fcea231.camel@gmail.com> <25e0ca9be4053c94d12461ec42f1985cd6730a8f.camel@gmail.com> <07907034239128b36890690703fe6cb6b4ce958e.camel@telenet.be> <53eabd93a0e41723ad3e0238314e630e713f8cfe.camel@gmail.com> <4bb446ca24b57f648d1dd4f0083010d9ee35c40f.camel@telenet.be> <28dcab6db488b73a95bfe349a3e97a3f4f5ec345.camel@telenet.be> <330265fe1014a4015dc64ec645f6c1171771b1df.camel@gmail.com> <03221fd1743fb50325dff2604f7b4fc3ae450c1b.camel@telenet.be> <0fa7c8f3068e5c5f8192b307fcb3446b0724dbf9.camel@telenet.be> <2d0e343d6ff84281e51a8fa4e0f0b3bb54f1b7b1.camel@gmail.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="pgp-sha512"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-OLVbsixDNsi/nbo6hQ2p" User-Agent: Evolution 3.38.3-1 MIME-Version: 1.0 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=telenet.be; s=r22; t=1651786141; bh=vi5etokyPSg1EjaFReFEbRSzzROmy/HUT9QoeR01ovA=; h=Subject:From:To:Date:In-Reply-To:References; b=h2BiRv78UVM5SpmoU72xj43Z0x6A7VlaB6LArNx9InRV47fzcmhS498/HSMqQ/DUw mCGqWGbQfliskMYRH9cWVVlHV0gmyfdJwfAvhdlQJMrbjJ5R8sF6GYiQ0FHvHoql3/ etf+o7NA0P2A/Ig3GJpiGdJQrhJf7KF0Ymp7xREfNfzUZvcrTHd3QhbSt4GY+DdwPE CrOZSqUNcM9+nSUFb4/lvhr1zvoDviMaDU6uhFoFysXdB8YQPOM+2qxATX8nqVFvJQ KyaXBCH3npInYQpl3hS4YUPev6ycYLhEf0cnmLqjW8LKk9rNL6gPXScPEOH+aBnWnK nC18IN5Ifj/7Q== Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a02:1800:120:4::f00:14; envelope-from=maximedevos@telenet.be; helo=xavier.telenet-ops.be X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-To: larch@yhetil.org X-Migadu-Country: US ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1651786160; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=vi5etokyPSg1EjaFReFEbRSzzROmy/HUT9QoeR01ovA=; b=P5m3RCfulzibaHIarfa9p6rVMzFmRnKqkY1AM/y2un9qH3XNE0+9lGb5HDl7esq6bmFJc5 bYKyLExxHHq0nz+Pn0sNH27ubek/ZhK7kG1PMF/EMt3kSbYYdzyI7IeSwgsd02WVOw33Co fTjDEr0wemdijfdYxLwNLmwB+mx8LXpPt5d4tlXze3LR4A76YPEm7sJjj9akc8OKEeTA/i Hub8pUdyVk4GPVYb5SKA1KVLtIlSQpjqKbCVRvAq8QQ1D6A1L9cnrk4etrJFEz3ZnzEwfu Z5USN4mVivLYOJWgWS4HS9/vodG+q/BoHpfDqchNIDFn5A7loYS9nAP2jS9l3Q== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1651786160; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=Ea0x+Ib25dNeryG3/awSDySEJD2Wl0EXHNxdh/XCHOmz+ML8r7lA66Blk77EJw37rAszJw 2nCVfuLuEmVglXIhACtEPoRBitpGtpEQbRsNGutOFHetG1z37AFYUue2bUhtXKg6ooUk4C 0gu1WxQy2sHsQSLyeWNlpkazOP+KqRnCYiUJTYvA7aT+dIhiuQ268qmHPA5D/P/6PNtQl9 lVCHcJZizuUgyakKFdGzh751rahXXls8TGXvixdU1l58j5Y7DFse2fxnT40iLmD37cI4T6 QAb27gnlvfajXpjlbmIJYxIwdSN1yPYLhzjiRNghtnobXRbijQtaxqGjtPZulQ== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=telenet.be header.s=r22 header.b=h2BiRv78; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=telenet.be; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -8.39 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=telenet.be header.s=r22 header.b=h2BiRv78; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=telenet.be; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 3AD3518183 X-Spam-Score: -8.39 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: EiADhhmOV8nU --=-OLVbsixDNsi/nbo6hQ2p Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > [...]> I did, but I assumed that people are already aware of multiple > profile workflows and the pains associated with them. I am, though in my case profile=3D"guix shell", not "guix package -p". > Having to debate the semantics of a 2.5 year old blog posts should > not be necessary in any I don't think the semantics of was debated anywhere here? Were there any differing interpretations of that blog post? (I forgot about the =E2=80=98clean semantic seperation=E2=80=99 initially, = but that's not semantics). Liliana Marie Prikler schreef op do 05-05-2022 om 22:53 [+0200]: > Note that the context has always been placing multiple profiles in > well-defined locations.=C2=A0 It was assumed from the very first post tha= t > you have a use for those, or at the very least that you don't mind > others having a use for them. As I understood it, it was introduced as =E2=80=98here's a feature proposal= =E2=80=99. By the following messages, I understood it as =E2=80=98this feature proposa= l is to solve some issues (profile building speed, ...)=E2=80=99 -- i.e., a mean= s to a goal.=C2=A0 Some goals which appear to me to be able to be solved more generally and automatically, hence my focus on =E2=80=98does this actually = help with these goals? Can it be solved differently, better or more generally?=E2=80=99) Only rather lately it was explained that it was not intended as a means to some goal (optimisation, etc.) (though it could help with some of them), but as a goal in itself. > This is an initiative for enthusiastic users who want > to split their profiles, not a trick to convince them of doing things > outside their comfort zone. Likewise. > Even so, your profile splitting won't > go anywhere if you don't have a data representation of what a split > profile actually looks like. Which sounds a lot like "I want the > benefits of your system, but I don't want the user to profit from > them by making an explicit choice on their own". If that's your > take, I have to hard disagree. Likewise. > Note that the context has always been placing multiple profiles in > well-defined locations. It was assumed from the very first post that > you have a use for those, or at the very least that you don't mind > others having a use for them. Likewise-ish. > > (3) not sure why the user would care about /var/guix/profiles/per- > > user > There are very important aesthetic reasons to place generations there > rather than literally in the user's $HOME. Right, I forgot a bit about how profile generations are assigned file names. > > (7) is already achieved by "guix install" / "guix package -m". The > > =E2=80=98source on login=E2=80=99 isn't though -- half-achieved? > It's not. You can't currently declare a noop profile in any Guix > command. A noop profile is distinct from an empty profile. I don't know what a =E2=80=98noop profile=E2=80=99 is but whatever, I don't= think it matters here given that some other things remain. Will become clear once it is implemented I guess. > See Andrew's objection in the light of non-managed profiles. I'm not seeing any fragility? And I'm not seeing the relevancy of non- managed profiles here -- if it's non-managed how would the alternative proposal be better there? And why would Guix Home concern itself with non-Guix-Home profiles? Greetings, Maxime --=-OLVbsixDNsi/nbo6hQ2p Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iI0EABYKADUWIQTB8z7iDFKP233XAR9J4+4iGRcl7gUCYnRBlRccbWF4aW1lZGV2 b3NAdGVsZW5ldC5iZQAKCRBJ4+4iGRcl7trbAQDFH67Yt7x/lR4foD2yy0SR9KFM BncYrVSG8RTJN/iYUAEA95BY24tdFXM6mSQR716J5G/QV8EJvHS4fmZ4/HJJwQ0= =JHjg -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-OLVbsixDNsi/nbo6hQ2p--