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Sat, 15 Jul 2023 04:45:27 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: SPAM Filter at disroot.org Received: from knopi.disroot.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (disroot.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bSEd32HhVaZA; Sat, 15 Jul 2023 04:45:25 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=disroot.org; s=mail; t=1689389125; bh=EVxkoVPSZAweAFRPnT04zUsCWCfFeniDUyQniEgnqnQ=; h=Date:From:Subject:To:Cc:References:In-Reply-To; b=GTCtYQs5cY9cmyePxyy+mk+fOHp3RQYnx8EvtubE5o9ULeocBX5DBaK0AmztQEe/c GUAh8uwoFpApBWh4yWA93ZaZ7/8KQoJPc/eDu5QSylUzU4/tOzjQd/nyS+VKzXdg2+ HD6ePOC6RwrApM8QRm387qFRo/+K3+taBzbB2ruwS0d6o+r+d2/7O4W2af9p/rtTjB RrwDc/3PB1p0b2sKEOSHYAkNq5LmYWvfcbCWsrpBMvo5xlGAbIOoUk5xk/ePvvpi4+ eTaS/BiRnsFGnl3StXYdvTAkqoJm2KoqJlBcteTgt7Sx07/tvJjGXM8TPHYucj0i5E Rtd8EKWjLlxAw== Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2023 22:45:21 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: kiasoc5 Subject: Re: A Forum for Guix Users To: Csepp , Robby Zambito Cc: Sarthak Shah , guix-devel@gnu.org, Felix Lechner References: <87sf9r6gmp.fsf@robbyzambito.me> <87sf9rygb7.fsf@riseup.net> Content-Language: en-US In-Reply-To: <87sf9rygb7.fsf@riseup.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received-SPF: pass client-ip=178.21.23.139; envelope-from=kiasoc5@disroot.org; helo=knopi.disroot.org X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Country: US X-Migadu-Scanner: mx0.migadu.com X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -1.11 X-Spam-Score: -1.11 X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 630DE63FE6 X-TUID: dKzJv+mqpSuA On 7/13/23 11:21, Csepp wrote: > > Robby Zambito writes: > >> Hi Sarthak, >> >>> As of now, it's a bit difficult for beginners to find answers to their problems in the mailing list or in IRC logs as they aren't very >>> easy to navigate compared to forum threads. >> >> I personally think that it would be wiser to improve the documentation >> relating to the mailing lists and IRC logs, rather than fragmenting the >> places that someone should look for answers. Maybe a new / additional >> frontend that is more approachable for new users would also be good. Imo, fragmentation is abound in Guix. The official docs, while very good, is missing things that often need to be answered by reading the source/commit log. Some examples: the manual is missing API documentation for many of the Guile functions for the Guix DSL. The custom kernel chapter in the cookbook doesn't mention using #:extra-options keyword yet. The packaging videos on the website still refer to old-style inputs, and there's no section in the cookbook that describes packaging paradigms such as avoiding assoc-ref. If it's not in the manual, I (and probably many others) turn to my search engine. But there's a relative lack of blogs covering usage of Guix, probably because most people have difficulty using Guix on nonfree hardware. And the unofficial forums for Guix on Reddit/Lemmy, where there's the occasional question, commonly answered by "I don't know, did you read the manual/ask the mailing list/IRC?" Yes, I end up on the mailing list and IRC, but that's because it's not easy to find information that's not in the manual. Compare this to Nix. It's likely more popular because users have access to the most number of updated packages on their (likely nonfree) computers and OSes (as Nix works on Mac). These users then write blog posts and engage with their community to espouse how amazing their Nix experience is, which in turn serves as informal documentation. More users = more contributors = more blog posts and engagement = more users = positive feedback loop. The positive feedback loop is comparatively lacking on Guix, which might explain the "small, and possibly shrinking" community (https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guix-devel/2023-07/msg00072.html). There should some instruction to learn the "Guix way" in an organized and efficient manner, as well as to encourage users to document their experiences and share them online. If a forum helps with this, then I would support it. > Sourcehut has full-time employees working on making these accessible, so > it really boggles my mind why we aren't using that instead of Savannah > and Debbugs. I would support a migration to Sourcehut. It really has brought the forge to mailing list development. Maybe Guix can host their own Sourcehut instance, after sourcehut is packaged.