From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp11.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:306:2d92::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms9.migadu.com with LMTPS id 0AumAFcA72QLGQAA9RJhRA:P1 (envelope-from ) for ; Wed, 30 Aug 2023 10:39:51 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:306:2d92::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp11.migadu.com with LMTPS id 0AumAFcA72QLGQAA9RJhRA (envelope-from ) for ; Wed, 30 Aug 2023 10:39:51 +0200 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A13B546110 for ; Wed, 30 Aug 2023 10:39:50 +0200 (CEST) Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=lendvai.name header.s=protonmail3 header.b=ILDUiPaO; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1693384791; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=Yrrczpk76oHar6CohM4bOpQq8++FB8uwtIMWgU5MnTk=; b=fCBiwS3Ew6YSSqNg85V/CLa88L8SLPpDgc44GGzQvkCZBKLp26RsxVeAVOTVh7pVbuBXQ8 bAVt2eo1oAtITvuK1JqVeIddrEO5VArv0awbKIWA9wM3MOSyOBNiP5bNvEuOd+NHOTOUNj mhQV2gedAcxN9qEKZoy+6K/PpEEWYvySRXdJMWclDk10D7eBDd5OG9iEtsXL14PXcx2nSX RmYxoR7oXJohoKIfpTBRow5UeHxTCjAy47mjGVib8EKun311uJzZl7NwmZbJ9QHNp2eCnU ROSrC1AmRg9CTpH6JjeEm83KDJfMpW9y53tDOwQa/cV+HKT4SAmT7Y60MNe6fA== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1693384791; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=jS8r7S9kwr1H6pGo8nD8jE/wMZyi2/CG/ddxNEqTyjqQPE5wNPfrovq5Kf+SoTnKksNPCt VAiHrEMFVAubOPzzUWhJ8t91I/1mpGlimUp0CR1E1UiAkKVHRIgn1MQ4Yx+52kpCJn5emU N3c7eQt1bQAMssiCKv798UDa/JVShKV5kfPjy1R4h2VmfHkwkM1tOhhzagnx3Zrf6hYNPT yAQn3hDbcKqjZP8dqQh0R3+oyAn5MEf86WWrSOfiXSykqHYRJx6rrgVU2Dlc3tvPThaL9Z LGU3oF3Zp4qXk21qRUVRFkEJKjsIhP+t37RVvHiPTs0ny9loqKbhipaikK3BBA== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=lendvai.name header.s=protonmail3 header.b=ILDUiPaO; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qbGjc-0003zH-1T; Wed, 30 Aug 2023 04:39:32 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qbGja-0003z5-6S for guix-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 30 Aug 2023 04:39:30 -0400 Received: from mail-4323.proton.ch ([185.70.43.23]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qbGjW-0005Md-3X for guix-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 30 Aug 2023 04:39:29 -0400 Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2023 08:39:17 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=lendvai.name; s=protonmail3; t=1693384760; x=1693643960; bh=Yrrczpk76oHar6CohM4bOpQq8++FB8uwtIMWgU5MnTk=; h=Date:To:From:Cc:Subject:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References: Feedback-ID:From:To:Cc:Date:Subject:Reply-To:Feedback-ID: Message-ID:BIMI-Selector; b=ILDUiPaORcgz/WR7zSDHWQnMq1PirhYfwZa4WjrhcEUbH55xfJUZvs3k20qRVvy1l qUkk0FxN1TnqtFQvK0pgniF5Kt0yGE1Tvs4Pz7FIFBINxrfOGAP5kuHTqVOkAjx0Kp dLidg1kjGYRHdYwEO7tCu5mhLIfdwvR80MGcY87FJ7DE7v9NXzYdXouTXpBQ251x+N e2tvcvC3HsJRKQ/WrTXyDbcBj8S2YJVouzgILFFHIJXw3CDhsvRG3EKXC4S4kANCGG 175Zra4PLmvORBt9k9TkfMyVUZJgVDTxz995hNrHo4Wmu9PLoPAni17a0qCRNy+RIt mRwZ2sgX8EerA== To: Giovanni Biscuolo From: Attila Lendvai Cc: paul , guix-devel@gnu.org Subject: Re: How can we decrease the cognitive overhead for contributors? Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <87a5ua9oud.fsf@xelera.eu> References: <87a5ua9oud.fsf@xelera.eu> Feedback-ID: 28384833:user:proton MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.70.43.23; envelope-from=attila@lendvai.name; helo=mail-4323.proton.ch X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H5=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Country: US X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -5.56 X-Spam-Score: -5.56 X-Migadu-Queue-Id: A13B546110 X-Migadu-Scanner: mx2.migadu.com X-TUID: sd2VADhIL075 > That said, I understand that some (many?) users are not comfortable with > CLI interfaces and prefers a GUI interface (web UI is the same), but > there is no reason to increase the reviewers cognitive overhead by > introducing an inefficient web based patch management workflow just to > address a "simple" and unrelated interface problem. IMO the crux of the issue here is not so much the UI, but the underlying da= ta model, because it sets the limitations for everything that may be built = on top of it. for now the two contenders seem to be, basically, 1) git and 2) mailbox.=20 a PR is just a git branch with extras. it's worth noting that git already p= rovides scriptable CLI tools for dealing with branches and remotes. and 1) is not better because there already exist different webuis for PR ma= nagement, but because of the future tools and scripts that it makes possibl= e relative to 2). and i, for one, would be open to hack on something that is written in schem= e and uses the former data model, but i'd never touch something like debbug= s. i'm not sure that this is a general sentiment around here, but i suspect= that i'm not alone with this. ideally, there should be something like mumi, maybe mumi itself, that is of= ficially sanctioned and is easy to start up locally to hack on. then frustr= ated contributors could write out their frustration into its source code (c= ompunding benefit for all!) instead of the mailing list (consuming attentio= n without much benefits). just now i wanted to take a look at mumi's sources, but the link in the man= ual (https://git.elephly.net/gitweb.cgi?p=3Dsoftware/mumi.git) times out. -- =E2=80=A2 attila lendvai =E2=80=A2 PGP: 963F 5D5F 45C7 DFCD 0A39 -- =E2=80=9CUntil you make the unconscious conscious, it will direct your life= and you will call it fate.=E2=80=9D =09=E2=80=94 Carl Jung (1875=E2=80=931961)