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Content-Language: en-US To: Katherine Cox-Buday , guix-devel@gnu.org Cc: Simon Tournier , Maxim Cournoyer , Saku Laesvuori , Attila Lendvai , Andreas Enge , "(" References: <20230827135726.y33t55w4cvq6zsvb@X-kone> <874jkift8v.fsf@gmail.com> <867cp4sj7k.fsf@gmail.com> <38242808-2f06-4674-3842-aea1a5378d05@gmail.com> <87a5u0o3z2.fsf@disroot.org> <3b274703acaf446ec678e96c9d875c5d6b1a3e17.camel@gmail.com> From: MSavoritias In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Last-TLS-Session-Version: TLSv1.3 Received-SPF: pass client-ip=81.95.52.48; envelope-from=email@msavoritias.me; helo=mail.webarch.email X-Spam_score_int: -31 X-Spam_score: -3.2 X-Spam_bar: --- X-Spam_report: (-3.2 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_INVALID=0.1, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, NICE_REPLY_A=-1.473, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Country: US X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -3.61 X-Spam-Score: -3.61 X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 535D455554 X-Migadu-Scanner: mx2.migadu.com X-TUID: Y/+P1FjnOSr+ On 9/7/23 23:38, Katherine Cox-Buday wrote: > On 9/5/23 2:43 PM, Liliana Marie Prikler wrote: >> Am Dienstag, dem 05.09.2023 um 19:40 +0100 schrieb (: >>> Liliana Marie Prikler writes: >>>> Uhm, we have snippets? >>> >>> Well, those are exclusive to Emacs :)  And without regard to /that/ >>> issue, I do think that there's a problem if the commit format is so >>> complex that it's not trivial for anyone new to the project to write >>> them out manually. >> By definition, no amount of typing is non-trivial, safe for the empty >> amount, which good luck trying to commit your changes by pure mouse >> movements, I guess? >> >> Now, if you excuse my French, I think the problem isn't really as much >> that people struggle to type out the perfect ChangeLog on the first >> try, which also makes it odd to request a linter.  Bear in mind that >> committers will sign off anything that appears convincing enough, even >> if there are smaller mistakes in the message.  Trust me, I've been >> there and seen that; and also done it myself. >> >> Instead, we have seen in this thread appeals to age, appeals to >> perceived lack of personal benefit, and now appeals to typing effort, >> none of which really make that great of an argument against the >> ChangeLog style, especially when they come in combination with a >> refusal to make use of already provided tools.  I think we're starting >> to see the moving of the goal post as the actual game here. >> >> Maybe it's time to take a step back and instead of asking “How can we >> decrease the cognitive overhead for contributors?”, we should perhaps >> ask “For which contributors do we want to/can we decrease the cognitive >> overhead?”  We have drifted much from the original post that discussed >> moms with full-time jobs, who struggle to do “difficult” tasks >> (simplified wording; may change the meaning of the OP a little).  Now, >> I personally struggle to see how your personal preference for >> communication media, commit message style, and other things that were >> discussed in any of the preceding threads actually correlate with being >> a parent.  However, I do know that with its 150 million users, most >> people of the world don't have a Github account.  Being one of the 4 >> billion email users out there is a comparably low barrier of entry >> imho.  So, whose cognitive overhead do you want to reduce (besides the >> obvious "my own", which everyone always tries)? > > Liliana, many of your responses in this thread are not OK. They have > been dismissive and have strayed into personal attacks. At times I'm > not sure if you're intentionally misinterpreting the conversation to > try and make a point. > > If you disagree with something, or have a point to make, please do so > directly, and without attacking anyone's character or making veiled > innuendos about their motives or capabilities. > > Speaking for myself, I think if you asked me questions instead of > inferring narratives, you'd find that our values and preferences are > probably more closely aligned than you realize. > > We're all here to try and make Guix better, but we can't do that in a > hostile environment. > > Completely agree with this too. I wanted to say that Katherine is not alone in feeling that some comments in the thread have been dismissive or even elitist in a lot of cases. and one of the main people posting these have been Liliana.