From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp11.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms5.migadu.com with LMTPS id eIA0D/0gu2KMkAAAbAwnHQ (envelope-from ) for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2022 17:40:45 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp11.migadu.com with LMTPS id AN0TD/0gu2Ip8wAA9RJhRA (envelope-from ) for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2022 17:40:45 +0200 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F054CDE32 for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2022 17:40:44 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1]:44384 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1o6DKW-0007UH-5T for larch@yhetil.org; Tue, 28 Jun 2022 11:40:44 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:57618) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1o6DJv-0007SW-W8 for guix-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 28 Jun 2022 11:40:09 -0400 Received: from minsky.hcoop.net ([104.248.1.95]:32892) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1o6DJu-0000H8-53 for guix-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 28 Jun 2022 11:40:07 -0400 Received: from marsh.hcoop.net ([45.55.52.66]) by minsky.hcoop.net with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1o6DJk-00033b-Jz; Tue, 28 Jun 2022 11:39:56 -0400 Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2022 11:39:47 -0400 (EDT) From: Jack Hill X-X-Sender: jackhill@marsh.hcoop.net To: Efraim Flashner cc: Vagrant Cascadian , Julien Lepiller , guix-devel@gnu.org, Felix Lechner Subject: Re: maradns reproducibility fixes and the merits of picking a random number In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <87pmjlfdjl.fsf@contorta> <310AD876-916E-4020-A87E-5609E8166432@lepiller.eu> <87a6amgak1.fsf@contorta> <87r13grv6a.fsf@contorta> <87leth7ev6.fsf@contorta> User-Agent: Alpine 2.21 (DEB 202 2017-01-01) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="925712948-517801354-1656430796=:14634" Received-SPF: pass client-ip=104.248.1.95; envelope-from=jackhill@jackhill.us; helo=minsky.hcoop.net X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." 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The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. --925712948-517801354-1656430796=:14634 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT On Tue, 28 Jun 2022, Efraim Flashner wrote: > On Mon, Jun 27, 2022 at 06:31:41PM -0700, Vagrant Cascadian wrote: >>> >>> https://github.com/samboy/MaraDNS/discussions/101#discussioncomment-3006487 >> >> Upstream appears to think it is mostly ok to actually embed a specific >> random prime... and not have it be different across all the builds, as >> the number is mixed with other randomness from /dev/urandom. >> >> It is expensive to generate the random prime on some hardware, so doing >> so at runtime might not be feasible in some cases... >> >> So, where do we go from here, knowing what we now know? :) >> >> >> live well, >> vagrant > > I looked back at the original email. I think we should not embed a > static random prime and mark it as non-substitutable. Then with that > flag add a note that it generates a prime during building and everyone > having a unique prime is more important to us than everyone having the > same reproducible prime. Hi, I think I lost something in the reasoning here. It sounded to me like upstream was OK with embedding a fixed prime, and even suggested one: > If one’s coding style can’t have a random 32-bit number in a build, make > MUL_CONSTANT an unchanging number like 1748294267 (the number I use for > Windows builds of Deadwood). Deadwood will still be secure from hash > bucket collision attacks except in the very rare corner case of > /dev/urandom not giving out good random numbers. Best, Jack --925712948-517801354-1656430796=:14634--