From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp2.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:303:e16b::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms13.migadu.com with LMTPS id ePqcHS6SG2eajgAAe85BDQ:P1 (envelope-from ) for ; Fri, 25 Oct 2024 12:42:22 +0000 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:303:e16b::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp2.migadu.com with LMTPS id ePqcHS6SG2eajgAAe85BDQ (envelope-from ) for ; Fri, 25 Oct 2024 14:42:22 +0200 X-Envelope-To: larch@yhetil.org Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=gmail.com header.s=20230601 header.b=TuzBWc83; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org"; dmarc=none ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1729860142; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=TR/wFARzyOX7ItMIYCcmcVzYzN30UngVpKzrnGDdPP8=; b=YhrNv+EzUzh7lykC41BY4EuVrIqfaJyBN1zigrm1ZIHFbNcWW7/9mNQmUSqkRlgubeeG5G xgMBL3mmvxYdpbR2sy2cD++PHnY/u1AWqrd2zZMSmyiibdSYCMnJQceYMT3uWGWIz0Nmri xtGUb766Zk4lg4J6htdfoTuvWdF7rddetIVra6sJpW1vByRWQ8mhTFbCRqhu1dAsP+aWfU BJx01IPWHTZEJa21E7j6fXHTXkCX6Vhl79N1XZLsDEEaNCOWhAw2rDu1BJ5uvw4aSZYXnH lDNrFIFlM29Ngq5LRZWUYiuTav/1UT6B+9mPL+PA0iodDoKR3czU0jfT9ZkJHw== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1729860142; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=WBKWoiTkC/FCVCbMF9AbpxRWv2usziEYoimlEKIlH5iB8pgsHhu15ZGnkt7cziy1NvTJKE OZE1I6xMxv3tdNNdVzSG7MN8eivHrxYIz/3CUcEL05mCiHm3lwCTRN6kQu8m9SXv1opXWZ sINM2gaH4mSFBuIoWodhiBAzGCs3U9M5KMSnnfpc7pLRIg1X5Y7qYUm4KD5J+/OTEVV32r cTHgdqOwZ2HELArGHwq7QOySODdMVQqx6ogKznCJC7D7vKW62IuvYWEuCqLQwXmOXJ/M2x HqtE+w6SrkOGioVxW0OhJKb3FidOUdKRbRA5Lx6XFUEkQoW8cOHBil5w8BISMw== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=gmail.com header.s=20230601 header.b=TuzBWc83; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org"; dmarc=none Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id ED70B1FE5 for ; Fri, 25 Oct 2024 14:42:21 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1t4JH3-0005nd-8M; Fri, 25 Oct 2024 08:18:37 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1t4JH1-0005n7-8J for guix-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 25 Oct 2024 08:18:35 -0400 Received: from mail-wm1-x336.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::336]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1t4JGz-0007K3-E1 for guix-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 25 Oct 2024 08:18:35 -0400 Received: by mail-wm1-x336.google.com with SMTP id 5b1f17b1804b1-4319399a411so5133205e9.2 for ; Fri, 25 Oct 2024 05:18:33 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1729858712; x=1730463512; darn=gnu.org; h=in-reply-to:content-disposition:mime-version:references :mail-followup-to:message-id:subject:cc:to:from:date:sender:from:to :cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=TR/wFARzyOX7ItMIYCcmcVzYzN30UngVpKzrnGDdPP8=; b=TuzBWc83HEUMv27dYpR6VU0lKEDg4dcKGNoYw0g/+BYLRlnQ+AYQ3+ldDmaK2R9MTG uOj79Wq3akbWxwR3kR/1xTzT03Pq18V6iasbtcsxyxiWMblzQMUt1mQBxf2ZRcFPDCmD Anf3Gg3XYube+8tLKtGvW6iocafHQ/q2UGYk+itwq8jedvxQrSW3AJyTYe5s9+rGxUXA G+GiKj6+aG+r40ehxUVZtHh/Suv7cpDXBhkH3wd0YwRqyfS5RBsKx1hjLjh+TpBwZ6AS IoGVYBBpfU1T0KYs883XJTeIDz8WtY3b90ZqCoslbHD1rqURPWJggznVehFIZeNRCUPd mYug== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1729858712; x=1730463512; h=in-reply-to:content-disposition:mime-version:references :mail-followup-to:message-id:subject:cc:to:from:date:sender :x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=TR/wFARzyOX7ItMIYCcmcVzYzN30UngVpKzrnGDdPP8=; b=e5JLRELHzzXYjf4Db4W1xgzRLGFG+TXQ33JC/rgudm17yFuBowxBgkdP93MNkFSX4K /Mu8rOY8fB1wDKQ+lBsNZvYMPa1+7eCTM+Bc4YdLJxL9TINhBne3lZCxb/trfZn80Nbr 3OIBa8tDxcnGx7ZAEXDo+IcgHqSuhrVrayUtlfUHgP95h3IklQmEHXkN1JjTJGzW6VOY mNVmfuUuN2blhyCB/sA6aPkpKsBE+d13UHz8pLG/BgDnA+SxhJJZz9fC0hLhFNHR/9AX 5gXJKlkoqj7aNeng2xY3B/aHYQCR/PSP5XYjz61mCzC1oZ0G3rfzf4lNWb1abvjFESka 6h3Q== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCUhAD0ziDj0OdDl3mleJ85jU5frOi5Eu/ZQJMzheKW95TpuyP5nEKg0vdj6yAiUSviz1+m5R2sgUrP0@gnu.org X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YwdPJfi+kOuao5xi965LEWz1Hu2tjeD17vR6gcslzZmzhK3fs9R ll5bBw8E4P3NJ6AOWDqfEqL8qlKDirTj3ozRWZWws/UHtuTNKZRz X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IE5bZQ29Ln9q6rXIs6kGPzBYf/ui/JomBd/ep2CkcAz7tJ0XRVF+xL9yXvMjVgORceBLRZ56w== X-Received: by 2002:a05:600c:1d8f:b0:431:5bae:c600 with SMTP id 5b1f17b1804b1-4318c780d48mr48424555e9.34.1729858711488; Fri, 25 Oct 2024 05:18:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost ([141.226.162.35]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id ffacd0b85a97d-38058b47952sm1370684f8f.48.2024.10.25.05.18.30 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Fri, 25 Oct 2024 05:18:30 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2024 15:18:27 +0300 From: Efraim Flashner To: Ricardo Wurmus Cc: Steve George , Ekaitz Zarraga , "guix-devel@gnu.org" , Simon Tournier , Tanguy Le Carrour Subject: Re: Discussion on Guix funding // future Message-ID: Mail-Followup-To: Ricardo Wurmus , Steve George , Ekaitz Zarraga , "guix-devel@gnu.org" , Simon Tournier , Tanguy Le Carrour References: <6daee7b4-a5d6-4f80-bbfa-995e65e17ae0@elenq.tech> <2wxdckzlcrj244urhij3j7to2hcvxiwqnb43npgfncfekipqqi@jebt4vhbwwl2> <875xpgo8cc.fsf@elephly.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="hzAZHLNyXJa4jXaC" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <875xpgo8cc.fsf@elephly.net> X-PGP-Key-ID: 0x41AAE7DCCA3D8351 X-PGP-Key: https://flashner.co.il/~efraim/efraim_flashner.asc X-PGP-Fingerprint: A28B F40C 3E55 1372 662D 14F7 41AA E7DC CA3D 8351 Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::336; envelope-from=efraim.flashner@gmail.com; helo=mail-wm1-x336.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -17 X-Spam_score: -1.8 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.17, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Country: US X-Migadu-Spam-Score: 1.74 X-Spam-Score: 1.74 X-Migadu-Queue-Id: ED70B1FE5 X-Migadu-Scanner: mx13.migadu.com X-TUID: /I+KvT6zgn0x --hzAZHLNyXJa4jXaC Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Oct 25, 2024 at 11:11:31AM +0200, Ricardo Wurmus wrote: > Steve George writes: >=20 > > One concern with supporting developers is whether it demotivates them > > in the long-term: from intrinsic to extrinisic motivation. Basically, > > the answer is that pay doesn't motivate but it does 'enable' for > > committed contributors: the Linux foundation survey shows this, > > there's also various academic pieces on FOSS motivation. >=20 > Paying some people also has the potential of eroding motivation for > those who are not paid. >=20 > *Employing* people and having their salaries be paid from donations held > by a foundation is a can of worms that I personally would shy away from > opening. An easier and less daunting way to inject monetary rewards > into volunteer-based activities is to fund awards for certain > accomplishments. This would strip all the complications of employment > and still allow for less desirable work to be rewarded. I can no longer find the reference, but Debian experimented with having someone (or several someones, its been many years now) paid to fix release-critical bugs before one of their releases. That release went out about 2 months "later" than other releases, with the assumption being that few people were willing to do the work for free that someone was explicitly being paid for. I'm worried about some sort of "recognition of exemplary work" pay-out, it suggests that others' work isn't exemplary enough for recognition and commiseration. The best I can think of currently is to offer grants for travel to events (FOSDEM, etc) or to help fund computers and/or office furniture with the belief that it would make their contributions easier/faster or more productive. With the idea of paying for things, not paying people directly for their time. --=20 Efraim Flashner =D7=A8=D7=A0=D7=A9=D7=9C=D7=A4 = =D7=9D=D7=99=D7=A8=D7=A4=D7=90 GPG key =3D A28B F40C 3E55 1372 662D 14F7 41AA E7DC CA3D 8351 Confidentiality cannot be guaranteed on emails sent or received unencrypted --hzAZHLNyXJa4jXaC Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAABCAAdFiEEoov0DD5VE3JmLRT3Qarn3Mo9g1EFAmcbjJAACgkQQarn3Mo9 g1FkjhAAhrThm8d5zI+0j2F9p2MYqP1MC9wAsmNAnQbJ1rpAwMnuPPFjSyb9Qtch +dQmNrdKAdGAAch8W8DDXugHEv6w1CEt1hfr9SDR1pzXruxm92oZmaLDLBmA2RVh 3pAP+ac4KXdAP96oMMiNW8h3T6QLeqsUFHmQh/8FarMf6ok2Pgkc2m7oXxB56rno OrGuc3zMdkSgcayExyd7YlJad0G3UGN6zILMN+qFzk9KMJ1RW8mPI0+jjfjm9uW+ Oyf5cCQ1XdE0k3AD57tj5Po58+Nu/BCdFjNVSzbuXI+/TizKFY3G0UjDod0f/snc 90AV5TEFsvjKVWGrIZauMS480rANtbHpJx1NUd+Bscnxkg24zsVKQoV6TH7w+GZL WYAhuZp9TWM4cYuvpuHxMtsXWu2RKPyGapK70O16FwegPTeGlP7Rt8vMAY9EdHFB g+P8pGgQxA3lLbVX1WeEG1ucpb9jbS82uj3DQqhwHkA0ymEmcwz7at5qwJV43RIw +NQeQMRC0nl1xlQzJLFUEk31xd11S58wS16ukfwkNl1W+btO6idZ5Fj78dCh/0rY JaZkVF3zbsAQJB4Z9fodzdA0OT1BA48yKQ7BUHfktEqk8d6ZcjZc4PtLYAPMxfdN rAbapEorp7Jd0AProHf4ZMShY25PkA74H07qOXGSlJMb3t1794c= =Qd1j -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --hzAZHLNyXJa4jXaC--