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[173.3.146.22]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id d75a77b69052e-447f9bf98d9sm869751cf.91.2024.07.08.09.27.29 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Mon, 08 Jul 2024 09:27:30 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2024 19:27:28 +0300 From: Efraim Flashner To: Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= Cc: guix-devel@gnu.org, guix-sysadmin Subject: Re: Sustainable funding and maintenance for our infrastructure Message-ID: Mail-Followup-To: Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= , guix-devel@gnu.org, guix-sysadmin References: <87sewr98jd.fsf@gnu.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="o60+pWmBK7tcC7SK" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <87sewr98jd.fsf@gnu.org> X-PGP-Key-ID: 0x41AAE7DCCA3D8351 X-PGP-Key: https://flashner.co.il/~efraim/efraim_flashner.asc X-PGP-Fingerprint: A28B F40C 3E55 1372 662D 14F7 41AA E7DC CA3D 8351 Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::830; envelope-from=efraim.flashner@gmail.com; helo=mail-qt1-x830.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -19 X-Spam_score: -2.0 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.0 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Country: US X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -3.99 X-Spam-Score: -3.99 X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 78AFDE35A X-Migadu-Scanner: mx11.migadu.com X-TUID: 475DVraJNHU9 --o60+pWmBK7tcC7SK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Jul 02, 2024 at 04:24:06PM +0200, Ludovic Court=C3=A8s wrote: > Hello Guix! >=20 > We (Andreas, Chris, Ricardo, Romain, and myself) were having a > discussion about what it would take to set up a build farm similar to > what=E2=80=99s behind ci.guix: roughly 30 x86_64 servers, with 32-core/64= -thread > CPUs and 128 GiB of RAM. The reason for this discussion is that we were > thinking that we should not take our existing build farms for granted > and be prepared for the future. >=20 > The various options and back-of-the-envelope estimates we came up with > are as follows: >=20 > 1. Buying and hosting hardware: > 250k=E2=82=AC for hardware > 3k=E2=82=AC/month (36k=E2=82=AC/year) >=20 > 2. Renting machines (e.g., on Hetzner): > 6k=E2=82=AC/month (72k=E2=82=AC/year) >=20 > 3. Sponsored: > get hardware and/or hosting sponsored (by academic institutions or > companies). >=20 > Option #1 gives us =E2=80=9Cfull control=E2=80=9D, the downside being tha= t it=E2=80=99s a lot of > work and a real burden (get crowdfunding for the initial funding, later > on to sustain funding to cover hosting, ensure Guix Foundation is up to > the task of managing the assets, and of course to take care of the > machines for their entire lifecycle). >=20 > Option #2 gives us less control (we don=E2=80=99t know exactly what hardw= are is > being used and have to trust the company hosting the machines). The > upside is that it=E2=80=99s much less work over time (the company is resp= onsible > for upgrading hardware) and less work initially (no need to raise as > much money to buy hardware). >=20 > Option #3 potentially gives less control (depending on the project=E2=80= =99s > relation with the hosting organization) and makes the project dependent > on the sponsor and/or person(s) in touch with them. On the upside, it > could significantly reduce costs (potentially to 0=E2=82=AC). >=20 >=20 > This is an important topic for the project, one we should plan for: > socially, financially, technically. This takes time, which is why > preparation is needed. >=20 > What do people think? >=20 > Ludo=E2=80=99 & co. Looking at Hetzner, they have an option to rent a dedicated ARM server with 80 cores/threads with 256GB of RAM and 2x3.84 TB NVMe drives for under =E2=82=AC300/month and a =E2=82=AC94 setup charge. Correct me if I"m = wrong, but that one box is ~20x our current active aarch64/armv7 capacity. Also looking at our current infrastructure at MDC, part of the reason we have so many x86_64 machines is because that's what was bought with the donated money, not because we actually needed quite that many, so some of the numbers might be higher than we actually need. --=20 Efraim Flashner =D7=A8=D7=A0=D7=A9=D7=9C=D7=A4 = =D7=9D=D7=99=D7=A8=D7=A4=D7=90 GPG key =3D A28B F40C 3E55 1372 662D 14F7 41AA E7DC CA3D 8351 Confidentiality cannot be guaranteed on emails sent or received unencrypted --o60+pWmBK7tcC7SK Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAABCAAdFiEEoov0DD5VE3JmLRT3Qarn3Mo9g1EFAmaME2AACgkQQarn3Mo9 g1FwJRAAwooVCvY0E6e39vu5g+HZEB1xK5IDC3sGy7N9KP7twWJlTPZZbnivGQw6 FTYy+aEjzcPbsCIA6cjDv1DdqmcMwPv6LVk0P4ttnWekma6UI/jtiu9RNII1kJbj UoqKcoz6aZjnny936c/2bU2vOhz126S5MIq5k9+s3WhYbsj/DeeOTgUWqEND50To G5/ACMTO+3NfveUiWzqDaYIeczfNjMONM9IiwgyZ1bVpGmlIY6jVyRBCuZ2ugJvD lVoG90yYKgFrcdpDpGqJtP+NsoExximzjWU2LCufFqs3y/t0ei7RrhviKYSeUkjK 3PBIAYazbqA+X/c6TjOpun7bNuPyqdHzI+FS194bUYj5ljAOR9jeCKP2e7hYXHDk gxej51VZMO3Pk4JOLMaRv6Rw24ann6rptiawLmNRrCk6p2IdJMfBPhc1We7m3odE tjDqJOP3sKM8QRivZlYeo2+jKpfWjcHYL4y2GNCS84TBqooSTXu3nrWMNMINQPBE xD+fz5qkUCdpPEVHz1hLAQd4lGtEvwvawEqS//ZH1RNYVy346ahf+4Bx4iB7IKU/ 4A2h4uaYwYYXHsHTATeX5Z1Y5DUEXuNp0aVgj09y+K1sCfGIViWUSWm4EE3wofnT osHaUi+x7vhHBQUCxq1OKxoqLKXvRG6QS02screghhZhQW/b0+A= =X8sz -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --o60+pWmBK7tcC7SK--