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micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="VU5xHZ/qbHz+tYX4" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=37.205.8.62; envelope-from=~@wolfsden.cz; helo=wolfsden.cz X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Country: US X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -7.06 X-Spam-Score: -7.06 X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 72FC275E33 X-Migadu-Scanner: mx11.migadu.com X-TUID: TsHmX8WsSjCD --VU5xHZ/qbHz+tYX4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2024-07-08 18:28:23 +0000, Vincent Legoll wrote: > Hello, > > On Mon, Jul 8, 2024 at 3:47=E2=80=AFPM Vagrant Cascadian wrote: > > > This may be a little wild, but what are the downsides to doing some > > combination of all of the above? > > > > A mixed strategy could reduce ... the upfront cost of buying and hosting > > hardware (#1), the ongoing costs of renting (#2), and dependence on the > > generosity of a third party for sponsored hardware & hosting (#3). > > > > It seems like any strategy should have some redundancy (e.g. multiple > > independent build farms) so that a failure in one datacenter does not > > effectively take down the whole network... > > > > That would be my opinion too. > > But for the cloud renting I would first research if there are associated > network or other costs, Yes, there are other costs. You in general pay for the egress used. I hav= e no idea how much traffic does our current farm use. I will speak of AWS, beca= use that is the one I know, but other will be likely similar. If we would have setup just in one "Availability Zone" (think data center), traffic between = VMs is free. Traffic to the internet however is not. First 100 GB is free each month, and after that (source [0]): First 10 TB / Month $0.09 per GB Next 40 TB / Month $0.09 per GB Next 100 TB / Month $0.07 per GB Greater than 150 TB / Month $0.05 per GB The prices differ by region a bit, but Europe and US are the "cheap" ones. Interesting point is that someone can just decide to download a lot from yo= u, and *you* would pay for it. It is nice way to drive up bill of someone you= do not like. You also pay for storage and various other things. Doing cost estimates in= the cloud is hard, because everything is complex and there are lot of options to spend on. Than there also is the "moral" side of the clouds. > because the computing is cheap only to lure you into the (sometimes > prohibitive) hidden costs. Even the computing is not cheap by itself, if you just want compute, Hetzne= r is cheaper. Clouds give the nice things on top, like storage snapshots, backu= ps, =2E.. (ignoring the cost). But, at least in my experience, not cost saving, unless you radically re-design your application/stack to match the cloud providers infrastructure. Naive "lift and shift" migrations to the cloud can have tangible benefits, = but cost saving is rarely one of them. Now, this all describes just actual "clouds". Hetzner, for example, does n= ot charge for traffic (with some exceptions[1]). You pay 2 EUR for public IPv= 4, but other than that, I did not notice any unexpected charges on my invoices. I personally think that renting actual physical servers might be a reasonab= le idea. One issue to consider is that (Hetzner in particular) has a history = of MitM attacks against their customers (assumption is that it was due to court order, but it was never confirmed AFAIK). So I would expect physical compr= omise (signing keys) to be possible as well. I have no idea how that would compa= re to the security in the current hosting. Have a nice day, Tomas 0: https://www.cloudflare.com/learning/cloud/what-is-aws-data-transfer-pric= ing/ 1: https://docs.hetzner.com/robot/general/traffic/ -- There are only two hard things in Computer Science: cache invalidation, naming things and off-by-one errors. --VU5xHZ/qbHz+tYX4 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEEt4NJs4wUfTYpiGikL7/ufbZ/wakFAmaNBzkACgkQL7/ufbZ/ walqaQ/9HZ8HsH6pztEP9P4bnvquQ1nq8kHywpJru87IUw9WoECqFfJVy2TJ50LG D0g9igrpgdaUk+Ulrb/tioQ3D217OXJUnfdBW7x+g4U+3L8tq644yBSjkCCJaZI1 FdSHqPSfrRmF8jbxeLToJe+APsb4+rACu96kbVOMBrNWRpSpq874oqYYylEki3qr YS0xHJcDG18OjO6PWSGSjfVo4/itlg9i6vXiaSWBbIILteMPhTSpTJ7xIUs332SJ buNht0TZD+aqLKKZ3WAMDSSgv5ttyRYA1QC4AffXLFQmdzyCeuish+NZgpvnh/S1 f86ovqgq93kfwb8fpGNY8rmBbQxlUZcTh7EhjF/J44fo7nUaDK2nLZ8aix8KxVaA 2xRARGJLptRhaUppbNTMYB6TGvJGFyJJROaH+2335sUXscVuVh50AwdsaRIy1K/4 cBIq3k/S6j7B7WqtRSk0CLQVQ9JlB2D5+0ZGLpIvYm++PqNJ+JwcgpefDQMw17nm /1poxcHTwPtbj20LJ6KUWIWu6lEDqS7YiEHr6pCOTeHi7SU65d/GsHqI67eE7ORx wXX7pU7Ib459Z0Z+XnHltO5xbyue6oCgFHGWZbhipMrRE0VEWThqa/eiynI+cTOA 8GREUF85HAT0n+YdJOgmV9etx5ICphP12nxFaKEgQgK5RWZq2Ec= =RrOo -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --VU5xHZ/qbHz+tYX4--