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Mon, 18 Mar 2024 21:14:57 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=wolfsden.cz; s=mail; t=1710796497; bh=Vt/Ovb/yAx3zKHvdPrGd24eqBfNW4zpoX+ESw6rzEUM=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:In-Reply-To; b=EoW6QvBfpgZJ5W+JWloGYbbO3JOVvU9D2I5XSS22rspFEayBYj36hWVnjlHz1Nje1 gqN7iv2WZXgF7M8IItFpC2haIgGw7A6hZZ6YU5GTXAmx0e8ZWzfI3YB+B5LxASdjDx v/9pKvRGB9ja54oilryGJq9UBj+pnkcDmJGla3IYmJpY1Cd+Ih7EVwCKQNV9QMaw2G J+bg5iIfvdSpLeoDGXczTVSgrdZlPcv0GtdHleWz7N2FikcOQjFVU/NIzaAoInOXyB wV1oPqc0VjQVLRHScEmBIuHZkJFmKrQXAl0b+Rzk48i2quftjTeozGpI/T6oby2G2I j6TGROdM00MGnD+AbqHXm/GvWINBsqlc/yuiW0cL/UXN3pRVTcqGpurItzHShz+n4w HqFx+B5cqrxvf4NFDwrf95Qpj4GQHK136QniKRqZrbne0JlSHuDhzdzgTIRv74lDaj IqoLMoqnSbV6Q9ta+DEix4CEOMXGv58OghOVk843mZ6DR6WRSceSMCesRbrQFnQZkA aZGk56n86YQBRvhOKqYhdfviO3ElnqqpsHKewNNJ5LLvtzD+So62CzDNXpCES6Y59s LvzGEk04xuxgcFHvJhpafgA+z4eNlKuKeBd0YJ2FK842arub0VQehPEcRiC1jRlxfM OhHVr0l+xM7US2eAMskN20oA= Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2024 22:14:57 +0100 From: Tomas Volf <~@wolfsden.cz> To: Daniel Littlewood Cc: Simon Tournier , MSavoritias , Attila Lendvai , Ian Eure , guix-devel Subject: Re: rewriting history; Was: Concerns/questions around Software Heritage Archive Message-ID: Mail-Followup-To: Daniel Littlewood , Simon Tournier , MSavoritias , Attila Lendvai , Ian Eure , guix-devel References: <645b9b21-4923-eb23-7213-1c2cf5fe6850@fannys.me> <87sf0nwzl1.fsf@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="cCz/S1tDiYCCpkyt" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=37.205.8.62; envelope-from=~@wolfsden.cz; helo=wolfsden.cz X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Country: US X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -8.50 X-Spam-Score: -8.50 X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 7C90D42BA7 X-Migadu-Scanner: mx11.migadu.com X-TUID: IOH/7M9W42ES --cCz/S1tDiYCCpkyt Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline On 2024-03-18 12:08:48 +0000, Daniel Littlewood wrote: > Hi everyone, > > I think the discussion so far splits into "should something be done" > and "what can be done". The "should something be done" is easier to > address, I think, so I'll deal with it first. I particularly have > Attila's reply in mind. > > > let's put aside the trans aspect of this question for a moment, > > is it reasonable for me to demand from somebody else to change their memory of my past actions? > > if so, then where is the line? what's the principle here? and what are its implications? > > i sure see some actors out there who can hardly wait to start erasing certain records at the barrel of the law > > I do not doubt that there are bad actors who might misuse the ability > to rewrite history generally. However, this only allows us to dismiss > the technical challenge if there is *no* legitimate use case for > rewriting history, ever, in any circumstance. So rather than removing > the trans aspect of the question to consider every possible use case > (good or bad) of rewriting history, it seems like we only need to come > up with a single case that's sufficient to justify altering someone's > identity, for it to be worth considering if the technical restriction > could be avoided. But then the answer is obvious: Someone might just > sign their commits wrong for whatever reason. Is it valuable for a > user or for guix generally to preserve metadata in the case where a > commit is signed incorrectly? Obviously not. So whether you are > sympathetic to the deadnaming issue or not (personally I am) it seems > like we can dismiss the question "should we do something about it". I do not think the situation is as black and white as you put it here. I believe the question of "should something be done" needs to be further split into two sub-branches. "should something be doable effective from some point in time" and "should something be doable retro-actively". For the former, I think most people here would agree that yes, and there already is a mechanism for that (.mailmap). For the latter, I do not think you can just "dismiss" it. While I agree with you there is a little value in the act of Guix preserving wrong metadata by itself, any history-modifying operation would have quiet large impact on the ecosystem, so that needs to be taken into account as well. And it that light I would say yes, preserving wrong metadata (when viewed from this angle) does have a value. And I say this as a contributor perfectly matching your example of "signed their commits wrong", which is why you will find me in the .mailmap. Have a nice day, Tomas Volf -- There are only two hard things in Computer Science: cache invalidation, naming things and off-by-one errors. --cCz/S1tDiYCCpkyt Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEEt4NJs4wUfTYpiGikL7/ufbZ/wakFAmX4rtEACgkQL7/ufbZ/ wakamQ/+PO2cI0xT3Oiv1+yJDXUsZ+xrcU+zTpzNUZkhZbkvXaHaDxOnJvCAHj+Z ATJ9kewcfL74yx5t3NNEuD3l7Blk4fMiKJQhyT2bLoW4V6bDAD/YgVGy0v2jNTuV /W+jkT8UoxaQPk87QVUs7FtNPNkAPH+S3nsuHvZiCRNjfPlnPg7qLuPWnqlWsfb+ tXwSOL+PQfMvAtWWzMP8fpIj7zhvbeSvwH3OYHYcjx7bvRXtuyyzlMIWYL41+vRz kKFZ1QL7qnjvcEcKEMpv2yPuyGS9qHG1NOYCK+Id4POB6PU28IiNKAInU3WXYod3 Ggn9m3yw90jK7p48JEQZfhTO4kfU2C3TEOuDvW6aaRRQKkpcsTXjjgylNvgMFEBC YQ5yxC9kmP5LargGC6mJ11Attt9XS0FomVN4703Nt2lvXunV5o//6opnvstQs+xG lGnT75WO48TYHFa7sapGEdyu5Jm/xfkMqKWptk3ZBHqjoaN/22S+JPP3h4FQcbdM yIQyLMTk4Cvwz1/Faha4lyPiI4xLYFSamqaamLSSGdmyiSQftZFzQ6QNW6muvp4U Fp0QM3LElThnCxi8t2LsmFtxnnv1TWZTKY+Qr0Ur6OnY1vTJWi1Ph1JF95RVqnRP Vrdh5RxQjiYlx+Kwez8/HKYy1R6RWlN2Z8gK/hIrUEAuJ84EhVg= =H7Gw -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --cCz/S1tDiYCCpkyt--