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Sat, 2 Sep 2023 20:23:33 +0000 (UTC) Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2023 22:23:33 +0200 From: wolf To: Csepp Cc: paul , Giovanni Biscuolo , Katherine Cox-Buday , guix-devel@gnu.org Subject: Re: How can we decrease the cognitive overhead for contributors? Message-ID: Mail-Followup-To: Csepp , paul , Giovanni Biscuolo , Katherine Cox-Buday , guix-devel@gnu.org References: <871qfsuvad.fsf@gmail.com> <8e74c4ac-a6f3-9127-7e13-593a2eb70432@gmail.com> <87a5ubqxm6.fsf@gmail.com> <877cp8965f.fsf@xelera.eu> <8eb1be08-4c3a-bd30-46c7-4ed653c4bb12@autistici.org> <87ledotmqc.fsf@riseup.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="k47tY94V47ysE43c" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <87ledotmqc.fsf@riseup.net> Received-SPF: none client-ip=37.205.8.62; envelope-from=ws@wolfsnet.cz; helo=wolfsden.cz X-Spam_score_int: -17 X-Spam_score: -1.8 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Country: US X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Scanner: mx0.migadu.com X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -5.91 X-Spam-Score: -5.91 X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 42D5134EB8 X-TUID: hJJeXZOSqKvP --k47tY94V47ysE43c Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2023-09-02 21:08:12 +0200, Csepp wrote: >=20 > paul writes: >=20 > > Hello Giovanni, > > > > I get that you really don't find the web based workflow to bring enough= advantages to justify the migration, but first please consider the picture= that > > Katherine sent and that we are evaluating the adequateness of the email= medium as a FOSS contribution management tool over email.=20 > > > > If we lower the bar for contributions more people are gonna be invested= in Guix and will have interest in becoming committer and reviewer. My > > impression today is not that there aren't enough resources to cover rev= iews, the bottleneck is the total time that committers are able to dedicate= to > > reviewing (potentially re-reviewing if some other non-committer contrib= utor has already done a first review) and actually commiting changes. > > > > I have many contributions opened more than a year ago where (sometimes = also because of me obviously, we're all working after work here) the > > interactions on the issue are separated by many weeks, sometimes even m= onths. > > > > To ease that bottleneck we just need to give more time to committers or= to increase the number of committers. All the automation and process chang= es > > we evaluate should be focused on either one of this two goals. I don't = have evidence that any web forge will help (maybe someone has?), but I woul= dn't > > throw it out of the window just because it does not ease the current re= view process. > > > > cheers > > > > giacomo >=20 > To second this, I'd like to note for the record that on fedi at least > 1-2 people told me that they chose Nix over Guix because they don't want > to deal with the email based workflow. At least one of these people is > a highly skilled programmer with decades of experience. Since we are collecting anecdotal data here, I pretty much stopped contribu= ting to Alpine after they stopped using the mailing list. The friction (for me) increased a lot compared to just calling git send-email. =46rom my circle of acquaintances, all people who picked Nix did it because= they did not like Guix' purism regarding software freedom and wanted something t= hat "gets the job done". I am skeptical regarding people picking based on web vs. email flows, there= are more important differences. >=20 > While I mostly argued for Sourcehut, I think the pull-based alternatives > should also be kept in mind. >=20 --=20 There are only two hard things in Computer Science: cache invalidation, naming things and off-by-one errors. --k47tY94V47ysE43c Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEEt4NJs4wUfTYpiGikL7/ufbZ/wakFAmTzmcUACgkQL7/ufbZ/ wak8JBAAhua6pS6O/9RtTWWHxnrXY8g9HqOSCxR9xXbBPVLd8liHUiUqqUcc8W2z BfNjIxL6Fj1bGQ1mzcgFg4kJZCy4oTYmN2Z6raOu83QGuJQOGnqzz9Czm4Cxfk6R Qx0W6OiDVZijD6gF9aAKBysvWqvP/HYX2aMp1E7hGO9SQl59GEUDBh9GN33U74KM wHCxfy4khd5NTu2A7ajIyVmMcMGvV5resH7NpBZXTg0bdUTAe3a+PcvSWhadvi/7 SMCmcPQUOTtqesPzcgd7xrqrnl+RuCXA7cCiRd6Ui+p6xWYfJhMf+kjsIoRta7Mq gE5CWGALt6mQxVIWQOq5UKtVQ633pOj0237Pgq4KhNJxqFavFbjBpuSWcYhQM83Q QoTDxrLLf4eIvClUqbLxFyC9XNYIGJZf50BoflrNM7mKRpeVX2URgedt4hyUou2U vp8ZfL0nZq/EjmsAbwHbFNYhAMtEhrFzu0XAZ57wyfDfpx2YdZ5kMRuL4eWixqOY UngmVVms0zETwNrUrx0Xs6x8pukaEPXkVSMF+7yr6hu0LoCzs/MSQu5aAUBgMslA F+yg1Y/BDnXgMn/6BK8ehVVLs/2+0tK/BVpbhanwilBTZTlkw3gdJoLHOfmcjZaZ VevrBcrWQNNnaa1uje7i8nMrTpI9ea0h3tUoGq/wyIv1OkOR99w= =RcpL -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --k47tY94V47ysE43c--