From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp11.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms9.migadu.com with LMTPS id 8JFCHcI8C2TiqAAASxT56A (envelope-from ) for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2023 15:20:50 +0100 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp11.migadu.com with LMTPS id 4FdaHcI8C2SKaAEA9RJhRA (envelope-from ) for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2023 15:20:50 +0100 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 39FEF2A200 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2023 15:20:50 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1padbO-000385-VQ; Fri, 10 Mar 2023 09:20:11 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1padbN-00037o-CV for guix-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 10 Mar 2023 09:20:09 -0500 Received: from hera.aquilenet.fr ([2a0c:e300::1]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1padbK-0005pu-4s; Fri, 10 Mar 2023 09:20:08 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hera.aquilenet.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2BB79EC; Fri, 10 Mar 2023 15:19:59 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at hera.aquilenet.fr Received: from hera.aquilenet.fr ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (hera.aquilenet.fr [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BTlTWFlGUnS9; Fri, 10 Mar 2023 15:19:59 +0100 (CET) Received: from jurong (unknown [IPv6:2001:861:c4:f2f0::c64]) by hera.aquilenet.fr (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 274152B1; Fri, 10 Mar 2023 15:19:59 +0100 (CET) Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2023 15:19:57 +0100 From: Andreas Enge To: Simon Tournier Cc: Maxim Cournoyer , =?utf-8?B?5a6L5paH5q2m?= , Ludovic =?iso-8859-15?Q?Court=E8s?= , Christopher Baines , guix-devel@gnu.org, 61894@debbugs.gnu.org, guix-maintainers@gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#61894: [PATCH RFC] Team approval for patches Message-ID: References: <878rgga1qv.fsf@inria.fr> <871qm8wf8e.fsf@cbaines.net> <87r0u86qgo.fsf_-_@gnu.org> <87y1o9mina.fsf_-_@envs.net> <861qm0da4y.fsf@gmail.com> <87sfegwh28.fsf@gmail.com> <878rg7uqb4.fsf@gmail.com> <86lek6ntpb.fsf@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <86lek6ntpb.fsf@gmail.com> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a0c:e300::1; envelope-from=andreas@enge.fr; helo=hera.aquilenet.fr X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Country: US X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org"; dmarc=none ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1678458050; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=cux9YjYgwuoYjz+tY4OwdMvK/Dk+b1zJtE7kRMDBEdy1W09v8JCpydcCXbHXJ0ZhwrBaeB r+UnK4ie45OgpbWX3nf8VLKVGqSdj73wH1701eRTswD96V2gT9r5rTfaz+mVNRehovfuaF EWQ2fynPFMYzAOQ1v9V/6c+t7wDgyndVx5n0ERXqGuLuXkTwSoTfOnmgwWWyhrQriR2GvG YtZDq2x6WD7oSSpdefVAFjgjQZaxbSZDuXeDfdAMilaTo9e6dnHlazMkEadUesUuZ9pFDZ wTT+L98s2BV+5UmTZbhaJuHOb0V5HeRjstwr5c6yejwLrFeN7f1xb1fnQLLTyg== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1678458050; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post; bh=yZe+lNEAmomKZ8OanHL8chf+pjm3E8L/Aqv8egWZcvY=; b=Xg0UO1UAzEQ79O0lAAE/FMOD4rx23CpVWbotAqFsWA0MTbPfNaKis4fMlgdCyBezZre81f FNltIerkpvd+bNepfCfyjWf8BK/tHAWr17Ar6VRWEpuhx1uLdVVW8dJYvkd9ynJ6rgV/y8 RNRu/fZ8OS5q00V6221Lx/5yDf1bwc+8q1QfIX3deUZpXrj2X6JpwEvaHLchDRZwQVpdzS RlIW9mtKs50oXady6DIrK+nOYoBhort8RDhzJ3eqD/9modU3RLcd3qDEUbO4y+dOakH3to owQd94hKQvLKj4fSdbQI8uxhbktvAbFTQptg0rO4/FyQcpp0rV7W2f4XnHXWyw== X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -0.99 X-Spam-Score: -0.99 X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 39FEF2A200 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn1.migadu.com Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org"; dmarc=none X-TUID: BRnG23nXLDRR Hello Simon, Am Thu, Mar 09, 2023 at 10:46:08AM +0100 schrieb Simon Tournier: > Hierarchy already exists, as in any social group, as in any group of > people collaborating. The hierarchy is currently informal. while I am sensitive to your argument about privileges, I am afraid that the suggestion would remove privileges from the committers, while not bestowing them on anybody else; as a result, everybody would be worse off than before. Right now one out of the (let us be pessimistic) 20 active committers can push any patch from the issue tracker, say for a package trivially obtained via "guix import pypi ...". With the suggested change, the currently 1 (and in future hopefully one out of a few) members of the python group will have to approve the patch. In that situation, there is no incentive for anybody else to even look at the patch (without agency, why would one bother?), and we will effectively have split the Guix project into a collection of walled gardens. I think this suggestion has the potential to make a stuttering project grind to a complete halt. And I am afraid that we are on a track to replacing joy, agency and community by grind and bureaucracy. I suggest to close this issue due to a weak consensus against the proposal (or at least the lack of a clear consensus for it). Andreas